Palestine

[Stive Pesley]

I hadn't appreciated that the outgoing home secretary's husband was a zionist. Probably a slight conflict of interest there...

[i-Ram]

Posted for balance.

Labour divisions deepen over Gaza ceasefire stance

Sir Keir Starmer is attempting to put Labour's position on the Israel-Hamas conflict to a vote, in a bid to maintain party unity.

The party has tabled a Commons amendment reflecting concerns over the civilian death toll, and urging longer pauses in the fighting to deliver aid.

But it echoes the Labour leader's position, and stops short of urging an immediate ceasefire in the conflict.

Dozens of Labour MPs have defied their leader to call for a ceasefire.

And 19 members of the frontbench have also publicly diverged from their party's official position.

One of them, shadow minister Imran Hussain, quit his position last week in order to campaign for an immediate ceasefire. 

In addition, nearly 50 councillors have resigned from the party, over the leadership's position on the war.

Sir Keir has argued that a ceasefire would not be appropriate, because it would freeze the conflict and embolden Hamas.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Posted for balance.

Labour divisions deepen over Gaza ceasefire stance

Sir Keir Starmer is attempting to put Labour's position on the Israel-Hamas conflict to a vote, in a bid to maintain party unity.

The party has tabled a Commons amendment reflecting concerns over the civilian death toll, and urging longer pauses in the fighting to deliver aid.

But it echoes the Labour leader's position, and stops short of urging an immediate ceasefire in the conflict.

Dozens of Labour MPs have defied their leader to call for a ceasefire.

And 19 members of the frontbench have also publicly diverged from their party's official position.

One of them, shadow minister Imran Hussain, quit his position last week in order to campaign for an immediate ceasefire. 

In addition, nearly 50 councillors have resigned from the party, over the leadership's position on the war.

Sir Keir has argued that a ceasefire would not be appropriate, because it would freeze the conflict and embolden Hamas.

All for balance! I think that's why the thread is not dissolving into the usual left vs right bickering - Starmer's cowardice on the issue is also indefensible

Bearing in mind that he's a trained Human Rights lawyer  - this video just about sums it up. I'll let everyone watch it and make up their own mind 

 

 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

I hadn't appreciated that the outgoing home secretary's husband was a zionist. Probably a slight conflict of interest there...

Much as I dislike Suella Braverman, I think this a dreadfully sexist comment, bordering on the antisemitic. 

[Alph]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

 

Sir Keir has argued that a ceasefire would not be appropriate, because it would freeze the conflict and embolden Hamas.

Yes. I'm sure Palestinians are less likely to to support Hamas now. I certainly know if I'd lost my home, my business, a dozen members of my family and my future was to live in a tent inside a fenced area patrolled by IDF soldiers that I'd resist the urge to take up arms. 

Freeze the conflict is the last thing we'd want. They're only Palestinians. 

Still waiting for a reason why what Israel are doing is logical and justified. Hamas can't be destroyed. They're every Gazan that refuses to s*** in a bucket for the rest of their lives now. 

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Yes. I'm sure Palestinians are less likely to to support Hamas now. I certainly know if I'd lost my home, my business, a dozen members of my family and my future was to live in a tent inside a fenced area patrolled by IDF soldiers that I'd resist the urge to take up arms. 

Freeze the conflict is the last thing we'd want. They're only Palestinians. 

Still waiting for a reason why what Israel are doing is logical and justified. Hamas can't be destroyed. They're every Gazan that refuses to s*** in a bucket for the rest of their lives now. 

100 commandos breached Al-Shifa hospital last night. Rolled up with 6 tanks apparently. From the BBC article:

Dr Mokhallalati told the BBC on Wednesday that the hospital was without power, oxygen and water.

On Tuesday essential surgeries had been carried out without proper anaesthesia, with patients "screaming in pain". No surgeries could be carried out on Wednesday.

Doctors were unable to help one patient with burns on Tuesday due to lack of equipment including ventilators and had to just "let him die".

Meanwhile six premature babies had died in recent days and Dr Mokhallalati said he feared more would die due to lack of oxygen and lack of power.

Reports on Al Jazeera indicate no shots were fired as no Hamas presence was detected, despite US intelligence confirming them as having a base at the hospital.

 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

Much as I dislike Suella Braverman, I think this a dreadfully sexist comment, bordering on the antisemitic. 

Can't work out of you're taking the mick or not - sexism?? But if the mention of zionism is the bit you think is anti-semitic then I should point out that it's her words not mine. In the Jewish Chronicle

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/police-must-understand-that-jews-do-count-says-braverman-4Q7armNPfrgXcW2P2VIv65

Quote

her husband, Rael, is Jewish. “The Jewish community is our community,” she said. “My husband is a proud Jew and Zionist.

“He’s lived in Israel. We have close family members who serve in the IDF

 

[Alph]

23 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Can't work out of you're taking the mick or not - sexism?? But if the mention of zionism is the bit you think is anti-semitic then I should point out that it's her words not mine. In the Jewish Chronicle

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/police-must-understand-that-jews-do-count-says-braverman-4Q7armNPfrgXcW2P2VIv65

 

That's been kept quiet?

I knew he was Jewish but I didn't know a "proud Zionist"

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

100 commandos breached Al-Shifa hospital last night. Rolled up with 6 tanks apparently. From the BBC article:

Dr Mokhallalati told the BBC on Wednesday that the hospital was without power, oxygen and water.

On Tuesday essential surgeries had been carried out without proper anaesthesia, with patients "screaming in pain". No surgeries could be carried out on Wednesday.

Doctors were unable to help one patient with burns on Tuesday due to lack of equipment including ventilators and had to just "let him die".

Meanwhile six premature babies had died in recent days and Dr Mokhallalati said he feared more would die due to lack of oxygen and lack of power.

Reports on Al Jazeera indicate no shots were fired as no Hamas presence was detected, despite US intelligence confirming them as having a base at the hospital.

 

Oh I'm sure a video will pop up of a Hamas officer inside the hospital. 

They killed an Al Jazeera journalists (Shireen?) and provided video proof it wasn't them. 

CNN investigated 

Israel later admitted it was probably them. 

So I guarantee there will be some discovery in the hospital. I mean, Hamas are going to use such places so it could be true. 

But the whole point is.... It's a hospital. 

That's what is infuriating. "They're hiding in hospitals!"..... So? What? Just bomb the hospital? Just turn the power off? Are you sure you're any better than Hamas? 

Tough to claim the moral high ground when you play tit for tat with a Terrorist Organisation. And with all that technology you still kill civilians at a rate Hamas can't compete with. 

Fed up of their logic just being accepted. 

[Leeds Ram]

https://wisdomofcrowds.live/p/americas-palestinian-blindspot?utm_campaign=email-post&r=1nteok&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email#comments people will probably enjoy this podcast. It's different from my perspective but a useful resource. 

[Crewton]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Can't work out of you're taking the mick or not - sexism?? But if the mention of zionism is the bit you think is anti-semitic then I should point out that it's her words not mine. In the Jewish Chronicle

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/police-must-understand-that-jews-do-count-says-braverman-4Q7armNPfrgXcW2P2VIv65

 

You appear to be inferring that she's acting  in a certain way because her husband is a Zionist and she's being influenced by him inappropriately, which has echos of certain accusations leveled at Starmer that his policy towards Israel is dictated by his Jewish wife  - this is dangerously close to the antisemitic belief that "Jews control everything and everyone" hence my choice of words. The  sexism comes in the inference that a woman does what her husband tells her to do, which seems unlikely in this case.

I doubt you meant to infer any of that, but it does seem a careless choice of words for a Progressive to make.

[Alph]

Took some leaps there

[uttoxram75]

43 minutes ago, Crewton said:

You appear to be inferring that she's acting  in a certain way because her husband is a Zionist and she's being influenced by him inappropriately, which has echos of certain accusations leveled at Starmer that his policy towards Israel is dictated by his Jewish wife  - this is dangerously close to the antisemitic belief that "Jews control everything and everyone" hence my choice of words. The  sexism comes in the inference that a woman does what her husband tells her to do, which seems unlikely in this case.

I doubt you meant to infer any of that, but it does seem a careless choice of words for a Progressive to make.

It’s far more likely that Braverman and Starmer are acting in the interests of the billionaire elites who want to control the oil and gas in that part of the world rather than their spouses. 

Sham anti-semitism claims is what the bankers use to keep real debate about the region off the front pages. 
 

 

[Alph]

Want to see discrimination? Listen to Suella and any politician talk about "them". If that was about Jews...

Click on any UK mainstream media coverage of the conflict and read the comments. Tell me who the vast majority of discriminate comments are aimed at. Do it. Go look right now and cycle through. Even the Pro Palestine comments tend to be anti Israel and nothing about Jews more broadly

We have headlines from GB News etc that say "is this what our country fought for"... Irony. Lots and lots of irony. WW2 produced a Jewish State but we didn't fight to let "them" support an Arab State 

Jewish lives, Ukrainian lives, Arab lives. Are they all given the same value? 

What would happen if everybody like Tommy Robinson changed the words "Muslims" to "Jews". Would they have the same freedom and support? 

I bet you can go on something like Twitter right now and see the open way people speak about "them" and "they". Where they should go and what they should do. What's left "Britain Broken". Who are they refering to? 

I don't really like things like Islamophobia Month. But that's this is why it exists. Shoving Anti racism campaigns at people.... I'm not sure it helps? I dunno. I don't care to be honest. I believe Britain to be a tolerant country and sometimes it's annoying to be constantly told we are all racist, homophobic, planet murderers. It's like a relentless attack from campaigns. But if we're going to look for say antisemitism then let's not look past stuff like this. Because in this particular debate it's often used to stifle arguments. Arguments being made by/on behalf of Arab/Muslim/Semite people of all people!

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

You appear to be inferring that she's acting  in a certain way because her husband is a Zionist and she's being influenced by him inappropriately, which has echos of certain accusations leveled at Starmer that his policy towards Israel is dictated by his Jewish wife  - this is dangerously close to the antisemitic belief that "Jews control everything and everyone" hence my choice of words. The  sexism comes in the inference that a woman does what her husband tells her to do, which seems unlikely in this case.

I doubt you meant to infer any of that, but it does seem a careless choice of words for a Progressive to make.

You're right that I didn't mean to infer any of that, but point taken on the wording

 

[Crewton]

13 hours ago, Alpha said:

Took some leaps there

I prefer to think of it as education.

[Crewton]

13 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

It’s far more likely that Braverman and Starmer are acting in the interests of the billionaire elites who want to control the oil and gas in that part of the world rather than their spouses. 

Sham anti-semitism claims is what the bankers use to keep real debate about the region off the front pages. 
 

 

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the top Hamas leadership in their Qatar penthouses who've been creaming off the aid money for decades and who, consequently, have no interest in either peace or their own people.

You won't find that in a David Icke podcast though.

[uttoxram75]

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the top Hamas leadership in their Qatar penthouses who've been creaming off the aid money for decades and who, consequently, have no interest in either peace or their own people.

You won't find that in a David Icke podcast though.

Totally agree with you. The leadership of Hamas are controlled as much as any other politician imo. 
I don’t watch David Icke podcasts. 

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

For a moment there I thought you were talking about the top Hamas leadership in their Qatar penthouses who've been creaming off the aid money for decades and who, consequently, have no interest in either peace or their own people.

You won't find that in a David Icke podcast though.

Easily done isn't it? Mixing up an evil terrorist organisation with a liberal democratic state. 

That HQ will be shut down soon anyway. When Hamas are defeated.

[Alph]

Hamas militant to face disciplinary committee. 

Hamas militant Amir Jamal Nabil is to face a disciplinary procedure after IDF Forces discovered his uniform inside the Al Shifa hospital as seen in the viral video posted by the Israeli Ministry of Defence. 

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said "The hospital was a command center for our operations against the Zionist invaders. We had three days to evacuate the building and remove all evidence. We are all extremely disappointed that Amir has compromised our efforts" 

A source close to Amir had this to say, "Amir was a difficult even when we were cadets. He would often show up on the parade ground in his pyjamas. He always had a fear of guns and would refuse to carry a weapon while on patrol." 

The latest video from Israeli government also shows the effort they are making to help the local population. Dozens of boxes labeled "MeDiCaL SuPpLiEs" in English can be seen all facing the camera within the hospital grounds. It also shows a neatly folded Hamas uniform complete with bright green headband on a table. We can't verify whether the uniform did belong to Amir Jamal Nabil but our source did conclude "Amir suffered with OCD. Sometimes he would insist that all human shields were arranged in height order."