The Paul Warne Poll

[duncanjwitham]

39 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

most of us look forward to some stability if that's possible

The chance of stability disappeared the moment Warne was appointed (in the way he was, anyway).  It was always going to take him 2 seasons to dismantle the squad we’d just built 10 games earlier, while we wait for the likes of Hourihane/NML/Smith/Barkhuizen’s contracts to expire.

[Andicis]

41 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The chance of stability disappeared the moment Warne was appointed (in the way he was, anyway).  It was always going to take him 2 seasons to dismantle the squad we’d just built 10 games earlier, while we wait for the likes of Hourihane/NML/Smith/Barkhuizen’s contracts to expire.

This is absolute drivel. He hasn't dismantled anything and any manager was always going to build a squad of players that suits them. If you are going to hate on Warne, at least come up with plausible reasons not this bargain bin justification.

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

This is absolute drivel. He hasn't dismantled anything and any manager was always going to build a squad of players that suits them. If you are going to hate on Warne, at least come up with plausible reasons not this bargain bin justification.

I mean, you’ve literally agreed with my point, while calling it drivel 🤷‍♂️.  He’s dismantling the squad we had, by replacing most of the players we had with different players.  There’s no way Warne was going to have the team he wanted with those players, or most of the other players we signed last summer, and the majority of them were on 2 year contracts with little resale value. So it was always going to take at least 2 years of turmoil while we moved them all on.  It’s not a “bargain bin justification” it’s a simple statement of fact.

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I mean, you’ve literally agreed with my point, while calling it drivel 🤷‍♂️.  He’s dismantling the squad we had, by replacing most of the players we had with different players.  There’s no way Warne was going to have the team he wanted with those players, or most of the other players we signed last summer, and the majority of them were on 2 year contracts with little resale value. So it was always going to take at least 2 years of turmoil while we moved them all on.  It’s not a “bargain bin justification” it’s a simple statement of fact.

Dismantled the squad how? Warne is using a lot of the players from the prior year other than expired contracts and the sales of Knight and Bielik. I take issue with the idea that Warne has done away with any stability when basically we had a small squad to begin with, and he's built on that as opposed to dismantling anything. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I mean, you’ve literally agreed with my point, while calling it drivel 🤷‍♂️.  He’s dismantling the squad we had, by replacing most of the players we had with different players.  There’s no way Warne was going to have the team he wanted with those players, or most of the other players we signed last summer, and the majority of them were on 2 year contracts with little resale value. So it was always going to take at least 2 years of turmoil while we moved them all on.  It’s not a “bargain bin justification” it’s a simple statement of fact.

Davies, Stearman, Chester and McGoldrick left at the end of their contracts, Bilik and Knight left for a transfer fee because they wanted to and we wouldn't have received a fee for either of them next summer. It's not wanton dismantling on Warne's part but players who we needed to move on, with the exception of McGoldrick who was offered a new contract but chose to finish his career where he'd started it. As for the replacements, we'll just have to wait and see how that pans out.

[sage]

5 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Davies, Stearman, Chester and McGoldrick left at the end of their contracts, Bilik and Knight left for a transfer fee because they wanted to and we wouldn't have received a fee for either of them next summer. It's not wanton dismantling on Warne's part but players who we needed to move on, with the exception of McGoldrick who was offered a new contract but chose to finish his career where he'd started it. As for the replacements, we'll just have to wait and see how that pans out.

The point @duncanjwitham is making (i think) is that many of existing players who had signed just a few weeks earlier and were signed for a different style of play and formation. Therefore PW won't get the most out of them and he won't have a squad that suits PW till next season. So, 2 seasons of transition. 

  

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Dismantled the squad how? Warne is using a lot of the players from the prior year other than expired contracts and the sales of Knight and Bielik. I take issue with the idea that Warne has done away with any stability when basically we had a small squad to begin with, and he's built on that as opposed to dismantling anything. 

I really don’t know why you’re struggling with this.  It’s not even really a criticism of Warne specifically, more of changing the style of manager radically, 10 games into a complete rebuild. The second we did that, any pretence of stability was gone. If we’d signed Warne in the summer, let him build a squad and then sacked him for Rosenior after 10 games it would probably have been the same.

So any people wanting stability in the short term are not going to get it, whether we keep Warne or not. We’ve signed 10 players this summer, and probably moved as many out.  We’ll probably do the same next summer.  That’s the definition of dismantling a squad, and pretty much the definition of instability IMO.

[Rev]

2 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

It took us eight years to see off Nicola Sturgeon but you want another chance in eight weeks. Have some heart and give us a break 😂.

I'm not seeing the connection between our club, and Scottish independence tbf.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

The point @duncanjwitham is making (i think) is that many of existing players who had signed just a few weeks earlier and were signed for a different style of play and formation. Therefore PW won't get the most out of them and he won't have a squad that suits PW till next season. So, 2 seasons of transition. 

  

This summer's window was the first chance Warne had to operate in the transfer market. So from his point of view it's just a one season transition so far. I sincerely hope that at the end of this window he feels he has a squad capable of making a realistic challenge for promotion this season. I think that is the realistic hope of most of us and if you are waiting until next season until we mount a challenge then you are out of sync with the expectations of Warne, Clowes and the majority of the fanbase.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

I'm not seeing the connection between our club, and Scottish independence tbf.

Losing a referendum and then wanting another soon after it to try to overturn the result. It's an analogy that's all.

[Rev]

Just now, Brailsford Ram said:

Losing a referendum and then wanting another soon after it to try to overturn the result. It's an analogy that's all.

Fair enough. 

[sage]

7 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

This summer's window was the first chance Warne had to operate in the transfer market. So from his point of view it's just a one season transition so far. I sincerely hope that at the end of this window he feels he has a squad capable of making a realistic challenge for promotion this season. I think that is the realistic hope of most of us and if you are waiting until next season until we mount a challenge then you are out of sync with the expectations of Warne, Clowes and the majority of the fanbase.

You keep applying opinions to people that they haven't expressed. More strawman nonsense.

[uttoxram75]

14 minutes ago, Rev said:

I'm not seeing the connection between our club, and Scottish independence tbf.

When Johnny Russell scored that goal against the gumps i'd have voted for scottish independence if he wanted that.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by uttoxram75
pathetic attempt to copy and paste

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, sage said:

You keep applying opinions to people that they haven't expressed. More strawman nonsense.

It might help if you didn't talk nonsense in the first place and then people wouldn't have to take a stab in the dark to interpret just what you are trying to say. Sometimes you come across as clear as mud. It's quite simple, you are saying it's a two season transition for Warne and we have to wait until next season for him to complete it. I'm disagreeing with you. He's aiming to compete for promotion now.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[plymouthram]

The blog started by David is your opinion of whether we should stick with him or give until October, December or end of the season etc. I for one was not happy when we took on Paul Warne and I gave my reasons from day one. But at the moment we are stuck with him and his team of coaches. His tactics/style/formation etc will only work with quality players that also have pace and lots of energy. I think the centre backs are good quality but lack pace. Warne needs to make the squad/team more adaptable and if he can't do this, then he his a one trick pony.

I hope i am wrong and our manager can alter/adapt against each opposition that we play against. Even our big 4-2 win at Peterboro was not overly convincing, had the Posh frontline had their shooting boots on in the chances they created it could have been a different result. And before any forum member states we were better than the Posh, that was only down to being more clinical on the day. They had more possession, shots and shots on target than us. We had Waggy who was at his best, scoring his 5th hat-trick of his career. Lets not forget, Forsyth was the one that wanted Waggy at his pre-season testimonial and perhaps Warne got lucky.

[plymouthram]

24 minutes ago, sage said:

33 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

This summer's window was the first chance Warne had to operate in the transfer market. So from his point of view it's just a one season transition so far. I sincerely hope that at the end of this window he feels he has a squad capable of making a realistic challenge for promotion this season. I think that is the realistic hope of most of us and if you are waiting until next season until we mount a challenge then you are out of sync with the expectations of Warne, Clowes and the majority of the fanbase.

You keep applying opinions to people that they haven't expressed. More strawman nonsense.

Well when Warne stated last season as a failure, when not getting into the top 6 and I would assume David Clowes and definitely most of the fans would have expected to be in the play-off frame at least. We went from the 18th Feb when we beat Charlton 2-0 at home to finish with only 5 more wins out of our 15 remaining games.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

The blog started by David is your opinion of whether we should stick with him or give until October, December or end of the season etc. I for one was not happy when we took on Paul Warne and I gave my reasons from day one. But at the moment we are stuck with him and his team of coaches. His tactics/style/formation etc will only work with quality players that also have pace and lots of energy. I think the centre backs are good quality but lack pace. Warne needs to make the squad/team more adaptable and if he can't do this, then he his a one trick pony.

I hope i am wrong and our manager can alter/adapt against each opposition that we play against. Even our big 4-2 win at Peterboro was not overly convincing, had the Posh frontline had their shooting boots on in the chances they created it could have been a different result. And before any forum member states we were better than the Posh, that was only down to being more clinical on the day. They had more possession, shots and shots on target than us. We had Waggy who was at his best, scoring his 5th hat-trick of his career. Lets not forget, Forsyth was the one that wanted Waggy at his pre-season testimonial and perhaps Warne got lucky.

Paul Warne's appointment was David Clowes' choice. It's his prerogative as owner, just as it will be his prerogative alone to decide how long Paul Warne stays as the manager of the club. In my view the whole purpose of this poll was a waste of time because the outcome will carry no weight at all. The decision ultimately rests on the single vote of David Clowes in the boardroom, not on here.

Paul Warne would not have been my choice but he's here now and while he is I'll support him until such time he gives me ample reason not to, if it ever gets to that stage; the only manager in over 60 years who exhausted my patience was Tommy Docherty. A few others went and when the time came, I didn't disagree with the decision.

I voted, for what it's worth, i.e. nothing, for 'Not even close to questioning his future at Derby.'

My reason was because it will all rest with David Clowes and I don't see Warne leaving any time soon. Clowes came in preaching stability and prudence and having a five-years rebuilding project in which, for the manager, instant promotion wasn't conditional. Under Mel, Warne would have likely gone after the Ipswich home defeat on April Fool's Day, which was on the back of the home defeats to Fleetwood and away at Peterborough. Clowes has to practice what he preached otherwise some will think he's as unstable as Mel. I think he would be damaged image wise in the football world if he fires Warne too soon and he wouldn't want that. Would he be able to look the next manager in the eye and say "Trust me?" I think not.

That's my opinion and others won't agree and nor should they. It's an opinion, not a fact.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

Well when Warne stated last season as a failure, when not getting into the top 6 and I would assume David Clowes and definitely most of the fans would have expected to be in the play-off frame at least. We went from the 18th Feb when we beat Charlton 2-0 at home to finish with only 5 more wins out of our 15 remaining games.

But really, play-off qualification was the limit of our hope and expectation last season. It was a fine margin in the end; if the referee at Bristol Rovers hadn't awarded the penalty that never was against us in the last minute, it would have been us and not Peterborough who would have faced Sheffield Wednesday in the playoff semi-final. But that's just another footballing if now.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[plymouthram]

4 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Paul Warne's appointment was David Clowes' choice. It's his prerogative as owner, just as it will be his prerogative alone to decide how long Paul Warne stays as the manager of the club. In my view the whole purpose of this poll was a waste of time because the outcome will carry no weight at all. The decision ultimately rests on the single vote of David Clowes in the boardroom, not on here.

Paul Warne would not have been my choice but he's here now and while he is I'll support him until such time he gives me ample reason not to, if it ever gets to that stage; the only manager in over 60 years who exhausted my patience was Tommy Docherty. A few others went and when the time came, I didn't disagree with the decision.

I voted, for what it's worth, i.e. nothing, for 'Not even close to questioning his future at Derby.'

My reason was because it will all rest with David Clowes and I don't see Warne leaving any time soon. Clowes came in preaching stability and prudence and having a five-years rebuilding project in which, for the manager, instant promotion wasn't conditional. Under Mel, Warne would have likely gone after the Ipswich home defeat on April Fool's Day, which was on the back of the home defeats to Fleetwood and away at Peterborough. Clowes has to practice what he preached otherwise some will think he's as unstable as Mel. I think he would be damaged image wise in the football world if he fires Warne too soon and he wouldn't want that. Would he be able to look the next manager in the eye and say "Trust me?" I think not.

That's my opinion and others won't agree and nor should they. It's an opinion, not a fact.

The decision on a single vote by Clowes in the boardroom does not come into effect, it's done by board of directors. David Clowes will only get the single casting vote if the result is tied.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

The decision on a single vote by Clowes in the boardroom does not come into effect, it's done by board of directors. David Clowes will only get the single casting vote if the result is tied.

I think it does. There is only one other director who is Richard Tavernor, the club secretary and also the secretary of Clowes Development. I can't see how DC ever doesn't get what he wants.