Housing

[Norman]

I bought my 3-bed semi with a garage for what I thought was an over-priced £135,000 about 2 years a go. 

I remember thinking I'd bought at the high point - because of Covid, a recession was around the corner. It needed re-wiring, central heating, everything you could think of. I said to myself I would happy if it was worth what I bought it for plus what I spent on renovations - as I thought house prices would go down. I bought it mainly for the location and garden, so making money wasn't the main focus. I was 33 and just happy to be on the ladder. 

Next door did the same renovations as me (2 brothers who died within months of each other owned a semi each and we bought our houses at the same time). We both roughly spent about 35 to 40k on renovations. They put theirs up for sale last month for 230,000 with bids reaching 260,000 within 2 days. They went for a bid of 250,000 in the end as there was no chain and it was cash. They're moving down South next Wednesday to a house left in a will. 

Absolutely mind boggling. Robbery, actually. They even said to me they feel guilty for selling at that price. 

As @sagesays, we have a lot of divorces/breakups, and a lot of single occupancy houses. I remember reading only the Germans had a higher rate of single occupancy in Europe. 

There is no way you can build for the demand. However, rising interest rates and cost of living will limit abilities to borrow and I think we might be nearly at the high point. I don't see there being a crash, though, so it's not going to help first-time buyers.... Just landlords. I was always told, the first sign of a housing crash was landlords selling up. That's not happening. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Norman

[ariotofmyown]

I struggle to understand why we make it so easy for landlords to own so much property. Hard to see what real benefit having loads of private landlords has.

I guess a big change in rules would cause an immediate shock to the housing market, that may have unintended consequences.

Perhaps regularly increasing taxation on earnings of 2nd properties could do the trick, with much more aggressive tax where multiple properties are owned.

All those empty properties owned by foregin investors too. Surely that is easy to sort out as well?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Miggins said:

I bought my first house for £13,995 in 1979 and sold it in around 2008 for £74,000. It was a two up two down end terrace and a lovely little cottage. It was immediately snapped up by a landlord who completely renovated and modernised it and it has remained a 'let' ever since. I was so lucky when I bought it. At the age of 22  I was on the property ladder .

It makes me so angry to see affordable properties being bought up by landlords. How on earth can people get on the property ladder when there is almost nothing affordable to buy?

I know this deplorable situation has existed for a long time now but just reading this thread has pushed me into writing to Pauline Latham to ask what is being done to help first time buyers.

So sad for all those out there who cannot afford to own their own home, surely a basic right. I now appreciate how fortunate I was 40 odd years ago.

Very similar to us Miggins - £13,700 for a three bed semi in Derby probably be £200k today.  Well remember struggling in the early eighties when interest rates went to over 16% though 

[angieram]

Me too. Bought our first little house for £8,450 in 1977 when I was twenty and sold it eight years later for £18,950. Particulars attached! ?

We moved into a new build in 1985 for which we paid £29,950. It was £28,950 but they put the price up when our house sale fell through. We stuck at it and eventually moved in eight months later and without a penny left in the bank to buy carpets, curtains etc. None of those things included in those days!

Like others, the mortgage rates really stung us in the 80s and we had one of those dreadful endowment mortgages. Instead of giving us a nice bonus on completion, we actually had to pay thousands extra to get it cleared, but we eventually managed it.

All those seemed big worries at the time, but still so much better than many young people today, who must be so far from owning their own home that they have given up trying.

I was in a lovely Derbyshire village yesterday. Most of the properties seemed to be weekend second homes for the older richer generation. No soul, no young families, no future?

[alexxxxx]

5 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I struggle to understand why we make it so easy for landlords to own so much property. Hard to see what real benefit having loads of private landlords has.

I guess a big change in rules would cause an immediate shock to the housing market, that may have unintended consequences.

Perhaps regularly increasing taxation on earnings of 2nd properties could do the trick, with much more aggressive tax where multiple properties are owned.

All those empty properties owned by foregin investors too. Surely that is easy to sort out as well?

Trouble is property is big busienss and there will always be ways for landlords to set up companies to run their operations from. You can then sell the companies on to other landlords when you want to cash out and not have to pay stamp duty.

People are going in to property and landlording because it's seen as a lucrative investment.

Down south the market is so bad, I know people in London who rent a house they can't afford to buy, but actually own and let out property.

[ariotofmyown]

46 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Trouble is property is big busienss and there will always be ways for landlords to set up companies to run their operations from. You can then sell the companies on to other landlords when you want to cash out and not have to pay stamp duty.

People are going in to property and landlording because it's seen as a lucrative investment.

Down south the market is so bad, I know people in London who rent a house they can't afford to buy, but actually own and let out property.

Oh yeah, the system is a joke. Just seems like it would be an easy win to get mass support in an election. Although whoever proposed it would have to deal with the media witch hunt that always comes with something that rocks the boat.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, angieram said:

Me too. Bought our first little house for £8,450 in 1977 when I was twenty and sold it eight years later for £18,950. Particulars attached! ?

We moved into a new build in 1985 for which we paid £29,950. It was £28,950 but they put the price up when our house sale fell through. We stuck at it and eventually moved in eight months later and without a penny left in the bank to buy carpets, curtains etc. None of those things included in those days!

Like others, the mortgage rates really stung us in the 80s and we had one of those dreadful endowment mortgages. Instead of giving us a nice bonus on completion, we actually had to pay thousands extra to get it cleared, but we eventually managed it.

All those seemed big worries at the time, but still so much better than many young people today, who must be so far from owning their own home that they have given up trying.

I was in a lovely Derbyshire village yesterday. Most of the properties seemed to be weekend second homes for the older richer generation. No soul, no young families, no future?

Here’s ours from 1979 - although my wife says it was definitely not ‘much improved’ estate agents eh? Apparently it was £14,700 not £13,700 but  todays prices for first time buyers to access the market is, as others have said, almost impossible. Zoopla estimates this property now  as between 220k and 240k - crazy

 

[angieram]

42 minutes ago, Monty said:

Here’s ours from 1979 - although my wife says it was definitely not ‘much improved’ estate agents eh? Apparently it was £14,700 not £13,700 but  todays prices for first time buyers to access the market is, as others have said, almost impossible. Zoopla estimates this property now  as between 220k and 240k - crazy

 

I wrote an assignment on estate agent jargon whilst at Uni. Interest sparked by looking for houses to buy at the time. I got an "A" for it.

Of course, in an era where everything is subject to much hyperbole, no one even notices it these days, but at that time it was far from the norm. 

You were posh - central heating back then! ?

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, angieram said:

I wrote an assignment on estate agent jargon whilst at Uni. Interest sparked by looking for houses to buy at the time. I got an "A" for it.

Of course, in an era where everything is subject to much hyperbole, no one even notices it these days, but at that time it was far from the norm. 

You were posh - central heating back then! ?

Well you had first floor carpets - luxury! (Cup of cold tea/Shoe box/middle of the road upcoming) ? 

[ariotofmyown]

Some very interesting posts about how house prices have got so huge. I'm sure their growth has massively outpaced wages, but interesting to know by how much.

How much of a factor is women working too? I imagine far more women stayed at home in the 70s say, to look after kids than they do now. How much impact has two salaries per family household impacted prices? Not saying women should not be working btw, just has all that extra work just been sunk into property?

The economic of all this is beyond my understanding, but for normal people, the only way to "win" seems to be move to a cheaper area/country.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Some very interesting posts about how house prices have got so huge. I'm sure their growth has massively outpaced wages, but interesting to know by how much.

How much of a factor is women working too? I imagine far more women stayed at home in the 70s say, to look after kids than they do now. How much impact has two salaries per family household impacted prices? Not saying women should not be working btw, just has all that extra work just been sunk into property?

The economic of all this is beyond my understanding, but for normal people, the only way to "win" seems to be move to a cheaper area/country.

Get rid of working women and normal people. I could vote for that. Might need it written on the side of a bus though.

[ariotofmyown]

38 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Get rid of working women and normal people. I could vote for that. Might need it written on the side of a bus though.

I know a ruling party that might go with that manifesto soon!

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Some very interesting posts about how house prices have got so huge. I'm sure their growth has massively outpaced wages, but interesting to know by how much.

How much of a factor is women working too? I imagine far more women stayed at home in the 70s say, to look after kids than they do now. How much impact has two salaries per family household impacted prices? Not saying women should not be working btw, just has all that extra work just been sunk into property?

The economic of all this is beyond my understanding, but for normal people, the only way to "win" seems to be move to a cheaper area/country.

We got married in 1976, 1st child arrived 6 months later ?, Renting a flat in Chadd was still tough, The then wife worked Part time at GIC in Borrowash, She'd take our Daughter to work and my Mother who also worked at GIC would take the Daughter home, Mother Mornings Wife afternoons, Money was tight back in the 70s, Even worse in the 80s with Thatcherism and being unemployed for 3.5 years with 5million other poor sods, Altho we were claiming benefits the Wife worked at a shop for £1 an hour to buy some of the nicer things in life...like food?

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Unlucky Alf said:

We got married in 1976, 1st child arrived 6 months later ?, Renting a flat in Chadd was still tough, The then wife worked Part time at GIC in Borrowash, She'd take our Daughter to work and my Mother who also worked at GIC would take the Daughter home, Mother Mornings Wife afternoons, Money was tight back in the 70s, Even worse in the 80s with Thatcherism and being unemployed for 3.5 years with 5million other poor sods, Altho we were claiming benefits the Wife worked at a shop for £1 an hour to buy some of the nicer things in life...like food?

Interesting post. There does seem a view (not on here but in general) how things were better in the past as things were much cheaper. When my parents/inlaws talk about how cheap things were, I do have to point at that their wages were much lower (in absolute terms) than today's averages. "Biscuits used to only cost thruppence a dozen. But then, I was only earning 5 bob a week!"

Of course, house prices vs earnings has got crazy, but I'm sure they weren't giving them away back in the day.

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Interesting post. There does seem a view (not on here but in general) how things were better in the past as things were much cheaper. When my parents/inlaws talk about how cheap things were, I do have to point at that their wages were much lower (in absolute terms) than today's averages. "Biscuits used to only cost thruppence a dozen. But then, I was only earning 5 bob a week!"

Of course, house prices vs earnings has got crazy, but I'm sure they weren't giving them away back in the day.

I worked at Prestige making pressure cookers, Piece work so the more you produced the more you earned, Prestige closed down and moved to Blackburn, Gallagher's the tobacco company bought them and moved them away, So I was laid off in March 81, Miners strike, Falklands War, Circa 5million unemployed, I lived in a Council house, Rent was paid, I received milk tokens for the now 2 children, Family allowance and unemployment benefit, Not a great deal to live on for a family of 4, Thatcher clamped down on those that couldn't work and their benefits.

Walked a 14 mile round trip for food parcels given to family's who had children and were of school age as my 2 got free school meals, But when on school holidays we still had to feed them, So the council supplied a bag of food each week for every child, Pre Thatchersism and the winter of discontent 1978/79 work was there and so life was good, Then bang, Labour kicked out and the Lady walks in...the rest is history.

Sure goods were cheaper, My last wage packet at prestige was around £135 for the week +my redundancy pay a damn fine wage back then, But when your standard of living is slashed by 75% you find life becomes very difficult, Out of my redundancy I paid off all that we owed.

From the mid 80s I found out what money meant to people, Thatcher made people realise what a £ really is, We became shall I say a little selfish and aware of our money, Our 1st house purchase was an old council house £11,950, Sold it 3 years later for £39,950, Bought another for £49,950 and kept moving up the property ladder until we separated and finally divorced, Split the proceeds and both moved on to start our own lives, I've made a profit on all of the houses I have sold, Now waiting for this sale which is taking an age due to the lady who's property I'm buying.

I consider myself very fortunate, Having bought when the housing stock was affordable, Life today for those who want bricks and mortar is very very tough indeed even with the bank of Mum n Dad.

[JoetheRam]

Average house prices now are about 8 times higher than average annual earnings. (£250k vs £30k). It was between 4 and 6 times for most of the time after WW2 until the mid 00's. But of course women either didn't work (or do paid work as they like to say) or were part time for much of that period.

You have to go back to the late 1800's to find such a disparity as what we have now (brief period before 2007 crash apart).

New, modern city centre flats available to buy for first time buyers only and a certain percentage available to renters via the local authority, with strict controls on minimum standards would be my way of attempting to address the problem.

And I'd make it illegal for someone to own more than one house if I could sneak it past the opposition.

Edited April 22, 2022 by JoetheRam

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Average house prices now are about 8 times higher than average annual earnings. (£250k vs £30k). It was between 4 and 6 times for most of the time after WW2 until the mid 00's. But of course women either didn't work (or do paid work as they like to say) or were part time for much of that period.

You have to go back to the late 1800's to find such a disparity as what we have now (brief period before 2007 crash apart).

New, modern city centre flats available to buy for first time buyers only and a certain percentage available to renters via the local authority, with strict controls on minimum standards would be my way of attempting to address the problem.

And I'd make it illegal for someone to own more than one house if I could sneak it past the opposition.

Exactly right and with the increased deposit levels required today it makes it almost impossible for some to get on the property ladder. A quick look on rightmove suggests the cheapest freehold mortgageable house (non-auction) for sale in Derby now is a two bed Terrace at £110k which I guess would be within reach for some but still very limited choice 

[Bris Vegas]

House prices in Mexico have boomed recently too. One of the reasons for this is the elderly generation in the US and Canada either selling up their homes for ridiculous prices or remortgaging their property on much lower interest rates to free up a wad of cash.

Mexico up until around 2018 and you could still find decent properties for less than $100k. My friend actually bought a two bed condo for $120k in 2017 and he thought he got ripped off. He just sold it for $235k.

Rents here have gone up loads, because those more economic Americans and Canadians coming down thinking they could buy a property for $100k can no longer find desirable properties (location wise) for less than $200k. All this has of course affected the poorer Mexican population who simply can’t afford even the most economic houses now.

 

[angieram]

On 21/04/2022 at 22:04, ariotofmyown said:

Some very interesting posts about how house prices have got so huge. I'm sure their growth has massively outpaced wages, but interesting to know by how much.

How much of a factor is women working too? I imagine far more women stayed at home in the 70s say, to look after kids than they do now. How much impact has two salaries per family household impacted prices? Not saying women should not be working btw, just has all that extra work just been sunk into property?

The economic of all this is beyond my understanding, but for normal people, the only way to "win" seems to be move to a cheaper area/country.

I worked part time from age 16 to 22 whilst I completed my education. And by that I mean temping full time every holiday to help pay the bills in term time.

Graduated in 1980, and worked full time for the next 41 years. 

I don't recall many stay at home mums from my generation.

We certainly couldn't have bought a house in 1977 without two wages coming in.

[Ram-Alf]

On 23/04/2022 at 08:21, angieram said:

I worked part time from age 16 to 22 whilst I completed my education. And by that I mean temping full time every holiday to help pay the bills in term time.

Graduated in 1980, and worked full time for the next 41 years. 

I don't recall many stay at home mums from my generation.

We certainly couldn't have bought a house in 1977 without two wages coming in.

Going back to the early 60s and the big freeze of 62-63 my Mother worked part time, She was an Usherette at the Gaumont picture house on London Road...which became the Odeon when the Odeon on Saint Peters st closed down, Then the Deli Counter at Ranbys and finally GIC in the 70s, Father was a Bus driver for the Corporation and worked some silly shifts, Earlies, Lates, Split shifts, They never got to spend much time together...well 6 times at least?, Finally bought their Council house for circa £3k in the mid 70s

Edited April 24, 2022 by Unlucky Alf