F1 2022

[Comrade 86]

Unlike others it seems, I've not read the report nor studied the respective team's accounts, so I can't possibly know whether or not all teams have been cheating. I await the charges against every other team with bated breath... 

The facts as they stand... All teams operate to a given and singular and precise framework however, yet only two managed to fall foul of it. Whether or not EB broke the cap or not is not open to conjecture. They did, they got caught, as did Aston Martin. Them's the facts and no amount of stereotyping or anecdotal shade-chucking is going to change them.

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Cost cap is just a new field of F1 being F1. Evreyone involved being so obbessed with maximising every aspect of every part of the entire endevour with getting one over the stewards, scrutineers, regulations (etc) is considered a win because you got something the others didn't.

Red Bull and Aston got caught. We know Ferrari and Mercedes have the money to be up at the cost cap limit, did they both diligently comply? Their certificate of compliance says they did. The public outrages from them suggest they did.  I'll reserve my right to a certain level of cynicism in anything to do with F1.

Sauber, Williams, Haas and Alpha Tauri would probably love to have a cost cap level budget.

We're not quite sure where Mclaren and Alpine fit budget wise, but probably not enough to be too worried about cost cap.

 

[Duracell]

1 hour ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Nothing to see here, in terms of performance anyway.

Unless, of course, you are a dyed-in-the-wool TeamLH fanboi

I've seen one report suggest that they've gone over by as much as three times Alfa Romeo's annual upgrade budget.

That is very significant in terms of performance.

[Andicis]

If the FIA wants to come out of this looking like a serious organisation, they should throw the book at Red Bull for this. If Red Bull don't receive a serious penalty, the budget cap is now default 104.99% for the wealthy teams such as Merc, RB and Ferrari. 

If they are to receive a fine, it should be a serious fine and count to next year's budget cap reducing the amount they can develop their car. 

This is the first test the budget cap has had, and if the FIA drop the ball here, they completely undermine their own rules. 

[Andicis]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

It was a minor breach. Which means less than £5m. Also, the overspend is rumoured to not be in car development and is in areas such as catering. So not sure how much of an advantage they gained from it. Below are the possible penalties:

 

I'm sorry, but the catering and sick pay lines just don't really work for me. RB would have known and budgeted for that well in advance, unless their staff suddenly increased consumption? 

The point is that every other team does those things, and fits it within the cost cap. So the extra expenditure almost certainly went to the car. It absolutely and unequivocally gave them an advantage. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

58 minutes ago, Duracell said:

I've seen one report suggest that they've gone over by as much as three times Alfa Romeo's annual upgrade budget.

That is very significant in terms of performance.

I just view it this way, if it didn't buy them additional performance they wouldn't have done it. How much it bought them, we'll never know but can only speculate.

TeamLH: obvously, it further taints the tainted title...

Orange Army Soldiers: obviously, it was only catering that was overspent and really nothing technical at all, why do you think Karen was so adament it was defomatory to suggest they got any advantage at all.

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

28 minutes ago, Andicis said:

If the FIA wants to come out of this looking like a serious organisation, they should throw the book at Red Bull for this. If Red Bull don't receive a serious penalty, the budget cap is now default 104.99% for the wealthy teams such as Merc, RB and Ferrari. 

If they are to receive a fine, it should be a serious fine and count to next year's budget cap reducing the amount they can develop their car. 

This is the first test the budget cap has had, and if the FIA drop the ball here, they completely undermine their own rules. 

I remember Mclaren being fined $100 million and having all constructors points deleted for what McLaren tried to play down as "a few photo copies and they were nothing like our car ended up being so we dont know why everyone's so upset about this"

[Andicis]

Just now, RadioactiveWaste said:

I remember Mclaren being fined $100 million and having all constructors points deleted for what McLaren tried to play down as "a few photo copies and they were nothing like our car ended up being so we dont know why everyone's so upset about this"

The minor breach of a million pounds over the cost cap clearly had no impact on the title last year as Verstappen was a whole whopping 8 points ahead, everyone is being ridiculous! 

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

TeamLH: obvously, it further taints the tainted title...

Is Mattis Binotto part of TeamLH as you put it? 

It's not just 'Hammy fanboi's' that are annoyed by this latest breach of trust, especially after Karen's incessant accusations made about just about every othrer team in F1 over the last 2 to 3 years. Interestingly though, it does rather seem to be the province of those who don't like Hamilton to imply this everytime RB drop a b******. 

[Andicis]

[I am Ram]

If it was Mercedes and Hamilton that went over, i just think the FIA would throw the book at them and lose titles. Red Bull are like Ferrari in the 80's/90's untouchable, they and their drivers do what they want, never any real punishment. We all knew what the decision would be beforehand, none of us are shocked. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, I am Ram said:

If it was Mercedes and Hamilton that went over, i just think the FIA would throw the book at them and lose titles. Red Bull are like Ferrari in the 80's/90's untouchable, they and their drivers do what they want, never any real punishment. We all knew what the decision would be beforehand, none of us are shocked. 

In the defense of the FIA, and I can't believe I've actually typed those words, they haven't actually decided on a punishment yet. I'm sure when they do your post will be spot on though. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

3 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

If it was Mercedes and Hamilton that went over, i just think the FIA would throw the book at them and lose titles. Red Bull are like Ferrari in the 80's/90's untouchable, they and their drivers do what they want, never any real punishment. We all knew what the decision would be beforehand, none of us are shocked. 

There was a fairly long period when Merc seemed to get their own way a lot, the FIA have always been prone to it.

 

21 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Is Mattis Binotto part of TeamLH as you put it? 

It's not just 'Hammy fanboi's' that are annoyed by this latest breach of trust, especially after Karen's incessant accusations made about just about every othrer team in F1 over the last 2 to 3 years. Interestingly though, it does rather seem to be the province of those who don't like Hamilton to imply this everytime RB drop a b******. 

I was spoofing the very reductive twitter wars between LH and Max fans.

The reactions of Mercedes and Ferrari do seem to suggest they were trying harder to be compliant.

And for the record, I absolutly love Lewis Hamilton, from his raw brilliance at the start of career, through the switch to mercedes, through to becoming an all time great.

 

[Duracell]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I just view it this way, if it didn't buy them additional performance they wouldn't have done it. How much it bought them, we'll never know but can only speculate.

TeamLH: obvously, it further taints the tainted title...

Orange Army Soldiers: obviously, it was only catering that was overspent and really nothing technical at all, why do you think Karen was so adament it was defomatory to suggest they got any advantage at all.

 

 

If you’ve gone over, it doesn’t matter what you’ve gone over with. It’s all performance.

Other teams have fed their staff too, and some, including Mercedes, had to lay people off to do it. The whole point of the cost cap is that everything goes within the cap - and if you’ve gone over it, you’ve overspent on performance.

[ColonelBlimp]

Need to wait for the report, if we ever get it.

It's the first year and there have been 3 procedural issues already so clearly some submission elements are open to interpretation and clarification.

I note the rabid fanboiism on here with some posters.

 

I wonder, if the breach was Mercs, how different some of these posts would be. A lot I would think, and far more forgiving.

 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, ColonelBlimp said:

Need to wait for the report, if we ever get it.

It's the first year and there have been 3 procedural issues already so clearly some submission elements are open to interpretation and clarification.

I note the rabid fanboiism on here with some posters.

 

I wonder, if the breach was Mercs, how different some of these posts would be. A lot I would think, and far more forgiving.

 

 

 

As I said in one of my posts, I reserve the right to be cynical about all things F1. Gaming the regs is part of the sport.

I'd guess the RBR accounts have lots of Red Bull paid RBR a Fukton of money to appear at this red bull event and RBR paid Red Bull Technology a surprisingly small amount for this piece of research, but, on the other hand, factory teams are probably benefiting from "knowledge share" from their automotive overlords. 

I doubt we'll ever see the details - just an announcement of the sanctions (if any) and brief statement. 

 

[Jubbs]

The moment he realized that he paid with the company card

[Alph]

I admit I'd be a little less bothered if it was Merc. 

It's because Horner is gossiping little Verstappen fanboy runt that seems to be consumed by bitterness. And Verstappen is an extremely talented cry baby who stamps his feet to Mummy Horner who doesn't ever tell him off. 

While Wolff has a bit of class about him and while I understand why people don't like Hamilton I can also understand why people do like him. 

With Verstappen I don't really get what people like about him as sports personality. I think I could manage indifference if he was not part of RB. I feel a bit sorry for him the way his 2 championships have come with controversy. But his often confrontational strops and tantrums being passed off as "he's young" grinds my gears. He's a product of Horner's pampering. 

So i'd definitely be less bothered if it was Merc. 

However, it isn't Merc. Or Haas. Or McLaren. Or Ferrari. These are a few of the teams that didn't break the cap. 

[ColonelBlimp]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 

While Wolff has a bit of class about him

Stopped reading after that bit. 

At least you admit to being a rampant fanboi so respect for that.

[Alph]

Just now, ColonelBlimp said:

Stopped reading after that bit. 

At least you admit to being a rampant fanboi so respect for that.

Haha, well my man love goes to Lando Norris and McLaren. But I'm if the alternative to not liking Crying Horner then I'm ok with being labelled a Merc fanboi