End Parachute Money

[The Key Club King]

17 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Was that when we had Match of the Day and Star Soccer...the difference now is the filthy lucre, The idea of the PL taking over from the EFL sounds great in theory...but in practice I cant see it, You need 2/3 of the Premier teams to agree this I believe, I just don't see them giving money away.

They won't give the money away which is a shame as within a decade over 50% of the PL clubs will get relegated at some point and be on the other side of the fence. This absolutely will happen but the clubs can only see as far as the current season and assume they are all established PL clubs. There are only maybe 8 established Premier League clubs who have not been relegated in the past decade.

[The Key Club King]

19 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I’m all for ending parachute payments 

Absolute disgrace 

Why? Given that those receiving them seem no more likely to get promoted than teams in League One relegated from the Championship who don't recieve them. 

It's a straw man argument. 

[Ram-Alf]

Just now, The Key Club King said:

They won't give the money away which is a shame as within a decade over 50% of the PL clubs will get relegated at some point and be on the other side of the fence. This absolutely will happen but the clubs can only see as far as the current season and assume they are all established PL clubs. There are only maybe 8 established Premier League clubs who have not been relegated in the past decade.

That I agree with, There are several Premier clubs now that have borrowed vast sums of money from future Sky revenue, It's these clubs and those others that are in the 50% who wouldn't vote to give money away, Self preservation come to mind.

[jono]

6 hours ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

Why not simply divide the Parachute money equaly between the Championship clubs!! 

I’d have a parachute aid fund .. ok .. you nearly made it last time. Here’s some bunce  to keep you interested.

Reaching the playoffs should be significantly rewarded so that last seasons losing finalists + other none promoted play off teams get the sort of fiscal lift that relegated clubs get - unless they are already in receipt of parachute funds at which point the award goes to the next highest points scorer. … Suddenly you have more teams at the same financial level .. it’s makes for a more level playing field. It makes the race for a top 10 worth while 

[jono]

I’d be interested to see how many none parachute clubs have been promoted in the last 5 years ? Anyone got any names ? Leeds .. who else ? 
 

The race is usually between parachute clubs (recently relegated or still in receipt from past seasons ) and maybe 1 or 2 others .. if you could introduce a financing system that was less loaded then it would be a far healthier competition.. suddenly you might get 6/8 clubs in the race rather than 3/4. And reaching the marker for a cash injection is an incentive to others but not one that would force madness in spending. A worthwhile prize for a finish above top 10 

[The Key Club King]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

I’d be interested to see how many none parachute clubs have been promoted in the last 5 years ? Anyone got any names ? Leeds .. who else ? 
 

The race is usually between parachute clubs (recently relegated or still in receipt from past seasons ) and maybe 1 or 2 others .. if you could introduce a financing system that was less loaded then it would be a far healthier competition.. suddenly you might get 6/8 clubs in the race rather than 3/4. And reaching the marker for a cash injection is an incentive to others but not one that would force madness in spending. A worthwhile prize for a finish above top 10 

I make it 7 non-parachute clubs promoted from 15 spots. Huddersfield, Brighton, Wolves, Norwich (1st time around), Sheff Utd, Leeds and Brentford. 

Looking at League One/Championship, the rate of promotion soon after relegation is much higher there. No parachute payments either (at least I don't think so). 

As I've said, parachute payments should make a massive difference, but they don't seem to.

[DCFC Kicks]

4 hours ago, Macintosh said:

I don't think anyone would argue if these teams were given a helping hand, maybe the difference between the highest wages paid by a team in the Championship and what they are going to have to pay. But a team like Norwich, their wage bill was one of the lowest after relegation, smaller than ours, they also sold two players for a lot of dosh. The £42.6m parachute payment totally covered all of Watford's wages and double what Bournemouth required, it was triple Norwich wages cost. It would be fair if Norwich and Bournemouth were given nothing, and Watford around £20m, a sliding scale of what is needed, and paid at the end of the season. The rest of the £365m divided equally to all teams in the Championship, around £15m each, then you have a competitive league at last.

The £34.9m second payment again covers all of Bournemouth's wages for this season with £15m to be added to the £25m they didn't need the previous season.

Callum Wilson sold by Bournemouth to Newcastle for £20m, Aaron Ramsdale to Sheffield United for £18m. Nathan Aké for £40m. Not sure how much for Harry Arter, Josh King and Dan Gosling. Total £78m

Jamal Lewis to Newcastle £15m, Ben Godfrey to Everton £20m. Total £35m

Pervis Estupiñán to Villarreal £15m, Abdoulaye Doucouré to Everton £20m, Luis Suárez to Granada £10m, Gerard Deulofeu for £17m, a few other deals difficult to work out because they were to parent clubs in Spain. Total £62m

 

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, then you're saying each relegated team should be given a proportion of the parachute payments relative to there wage bill. Wouldn't that just encourage clubs to spend as much as possible? Also if a team didn't spend much on wages and got relegated, wouldn't that mean their lack of wage cost would mean more money going to another of the relegated teams an now Championship rival?

Yes teams like Norwich are well run but the parachute payments give them stability which most Championship teams don't even have anymore. Just existing in the Championship now is causing teams to go into debt.

I don't see why the PL would distribute the money out to other Championship teams. Their whole existence is based on making money. They don't do anything to help the wider game. They view the sport as a product. The money men behind the PL would be happy to scrap promotion/relegation if they could get away with it as it would make their product more stable.

[The Key Club King]

Actually every Championship club receives £4.5 million per year from the PL as solidarity payments. 

 

 

[DCFC Kicks]

4 hours ago, GenBr said:

Just insert relegation clauses into players contracts. There you go i've solved the problem for you.

But what's to stop one of the three promoted gambling and poaching all the best players by not putting in relegation clauses? Also would the necessary quality of player join if a relegation clause was there?

[Ram-Alf]

22 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I don't see why the PL would distribute the money out to other Championship teams. Their whole existence is based on making money. They don't do anything to help the wider game. They view the sport as a product. The money men behind the PL would be happy to scrap promotion/relegation if they could get away with it as it would make their product more stable.

The European Super League altho mothballed will come about...but not in the format that was proposed, You can bet your Grans Pension that talks are still ongoing concerning BIG EU clubs, Clubs imo will resign from their leagues and set up a closed shop of around 18 of the biggest teams and play in a league format as is now...38 games, TV companies around the World will cream themselves over this...and the rest of the Premier teams will shrivell into the corner as the money tap has slowley dried up...all in the realms of fantasy now, But this is what the Bigger clubs want in Europe.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Unlucky Alf

[jono]

39 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

I make it 7 non-parachute clubs promoted from 15 spots. Huddersfield, Brighton, Wolves, Norwich (1st time around), Sheff Utd, Leeds and Brentford. 

Looking at League One/Championship, the rate of promotion soon after relegation is much higher there. No parachute payments either (at least I don't think so). 

As I've said, parachute payments should make a massive difference, but they don't seem to.

So 50% of promotion slots were taken by 8 parachute clubs. Leaving the remaining 50% of slots split between the rest. So you go down and it’s 50/50 whether you go up. And you get another 50/50 for 3 seasons on the trot ? While the rest ? 
It’s loaded dice 

[The Key Club King]

7 minutes ago, jono said:

So 50% of promotion slots were taken by 8 parachute clubs. Leaving the remaining 50% of slots split between the rest. So you go down and it’s 50/50 whether you go up. And you get another 50/50 for 3 seasons on the trot ? While the rest ? 
It’s loaded dice 

I don't know the situation pre PL but I would imagine it would not be much different. Once you have a decent team you will probably get a few good tears out of it. Yo-yo clubs aren't a new phenomenon. 

[jono]

20 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

I don't know the situation pre PL but I would imagine it would not be much different. Once you have a decent team you will probably get a few good tears out of it. Yo-yo clubs aren't a new phenomenon. 

I think you’re right. Wherever you are there are the “top teams” .. it is natural selection. History, crowd sizes all sorts. And fair enough
 

For me though Parachute simply warps that to the point that the teams that might break in can’t because the incumbents are unreasonably protected. It creates virtual stasis. The Yo Yo clubs will always be Yo Yo. The opportunity for new blood is discouraged 

[jono]

8 minutes ago, jono said:

I think you’re right. Wherever you are there are the “top teams” .. it is natural selection. History, crowd sizes all sorts. And fair enough
 

For me though Parachute simply warps that to the point that the teams that might break in can’t because the incumbents are unreasonably protected. It creates virtual stasis. The Yo Yo clubs will always be Yo Yo. The opportunity for new blood is discouraged 

The other thing is that parachute runs parallel with P+S .. so 8 teams get this helping hand whilst the others can’t even gamble without being hit. It’s counter intuitive.

He’s got a sword, you’ve got a pointed stick. You try and buy a sword and “they” say you can’t have one, you tried to use one anyway, so they take  your pointed stick from you and giving you a chocolate teapot.  

[Oldben]

To overcome parachute payments would probably require a wage cap.

The efl tried a wage cap in League one of 2 million, it was voted out by the players Union.

If it can't be made to work in League one, how can it work in the Championship.

Owners will do what ever they can to reach the biggest prize of promotion to the premiership, in part not because they think they will necessarily stay in the Premier league but they are happy to bounce around League's gaining parachute payments.

The efl created that situation by not doing anything about it.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Is it true that most of the clubs in the Premier league lose money? If so why are all these chairman determined to get there. Just vanity? Perhaps Ghost of Clough may know the profit/Loss figures for a few PL clubs. 

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

Why? Given that those receiving them seem no more likely to get promoted than teams in League One relegated from the Championship who don't recieve them. 

It's a straw man argument. 

Are you joking.

[jono]

1 minute ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Is it true that most of the clubs in the Premier league lose money? If so why are all these chairman determined to get there. Just vanity? Perhaps Ghost of Clough may know the profit/Loss figures for a few PL clubs. 

I think for the ultra rich (as opposed to filthy rich) a PL club is like having the next level of super yacht .. it’s a trophy, a status symbol. The cost is largely irrelevant. Then you get the second tier .. the speculative investors like the Glazers .. who had nothing but saw an undervalued brand and borrowed money to own it and realise full value of it. Failure doesn’t matter, it’s not their money. Then you get  theNorwich and the Derby situation .. some individual wealth but the deals they make and the business you do have to provide a return .. if they don’t then it hurts.  

[Ram-Alf]

11 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Is it true that most of the clubs in the Premier league lose money? If so why are all these chairman determined to get there. Just vanity? Perhaps Ghost of Clough may know the profit/Loss figures for a few PL clubs. 

Look no further than this...gob smacking!

https://www.football365.com/news/man-utd-under-the-glazers-the-ridiculously-frightening-numbers

[Macintosh]

2 hours ago, jono said:

I’d be interested to see how many none parachute clubs have been promoted in the last 5 years ? Anyone got any names ? Leeds .. who else ? 
 

The race is usually between parachute clubs (recently relegated or still in receipt from past seasons ) and maybe 1 or 2 others .. if you could introduce a financing system that was less loaded then it would be a far healthier competition.. suddenly you might get 6/8 clubs in the race rather than 3/4. And reaching the marker for a cash injection is an incentive to others but not one that would force madness in spending. A worthwhile prize for a finish above top 10 

My argument is that the only way this will ever change is through fan power, media and journalists. That's why the European Super League collapsed. Another gripe is that QPRs punishment of £41m, well that ended up getting paid by Parachute Money, so they suffered absolutely nothing and only the Rams did. And where did that money go, same with the fines to Bournemouth and Leicester? Certainly not distributed to the clubs.

 

2020/21

Norwich City, Watford

Swansea and Bournemouth in Play-offs

 

2019/20

West Brom

Fulham, Cardiff and Swansea in Play-offs

 

2018/19

Norwich City

West Brom and Aston Villa in Play-offs

 

2017/18

Cardiff

Fulham, Aston Villa, Middlesbrough in Play-offs

 

2016/17

Newcastle

Reading and Fulham in Play-offs

 

2015/16

Burnley

Hull City in Play-offs