Alan Nixon Breaks Silence on American Billionaire Bid

[PistoldPete]

8 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Why do you keep on saying this is just cash flow (although you at least are now saying I think). Think again.  I haven’t checked but I doubt DCFC have made a profit in the last 13/14 years, unless of course we want to count a stadium revaluation which is not trading related. The Club is losing money all the time. It will carry on losing money for a long time after new owners come in (if, as we all hope, they do). The only way we can generate a positive cash flow is securing more income from our football activities than our underlying costs - pretty difficult in the Championship, worse still I am certain in League 1 - or if we have some wealthy benefactors prepared to inject surplus cash into the Club to satisfy the purposes of their investment.

Because many media outlets have said Derby are losing £1m a month. They are not. They may need £1m a month in cash , and to demonstrate to EFL that they do not run out of cash.

last year our FFP as restated by EFL showed an £18 m loss .That was when our stadium was empty  for a full year. It was also allowing final depreciation on Lampard’s poo signings…. Malone, jozefzon Marriott wag horn . Since then we have cut back on spending on wages too. 
 

so I’m saying we are not making losses at anything like that level now but cash flow is not great due to season ticket money being paid in advance and carried over. 
 

that’s why I think we need a temporary loan to help with cash flow.

 

of course we also need a shed load of money to pay off our debts but that is a different matter. 

[i-Ram]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Because many media outlets have said Derby are losing £1m a month. They are not. They may need £1m a month in cash , and to demonstrate to EFL that they do not run out of cash.

last year our FFP as restated by EFL showed an £18 m loss .That was when our stadium was empty  for a full year. It was also allowing final depreciation on Lampard’s poo signings…. Malone, jozefzon Marriott wag horn . Since then we have cut back on spending on wages too. 
 

so I’m saying we are not making losses at anything like that level now but cash flow is not great due to season ticket money being paid in advance and carried over. 
 

that’s why I think we need a temporary loan to help with cash flow.

 

of course we also need a shed load of money to pay off our debts but that is a different matter. 

I can get on board with that - although not sure about your ‘restated’ FFP loss. FFP losses exclude some costs, such as running costs of the Academy. Pure speculation on my part but I wouldn’t be surprised if we were still losing around £0.5m per month (excluding Administrator costs).

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

28 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Because many media outlets have said Derby are losing £1m a month. They are not. They may need £1m a month in cash , and to demonstrate to EFL that they do not run out of cash.

last year our FFP as restated by EFL showed an £18 m loss .That was when our stadium was empty  for a full year. It was also allowing final depreciation on Lampard’s poo signings…. Malone, jozefzon Marriott wag horn . Since then we have cut back on spending on wages too. 
 

so I’m saying we are not making losses at anything like that level now but cash flow is not great due to season ticket money being paid in advance and carried over. 
 

that’s why I think we need a temporary loan to help with cash flow.

 

of course we also need a shed load of money to pay off our debts but that is a different matter. 

There was a shortfall of £1mil a month back in 2016/2017. Questions were asked how long it could continue then. Losses probably aren’t as big per month now for day to day operations, I doubt many players are on high wages and some staff have been made redundant but there are fewer season ticket holders this year also. 

[PistoldPete]

29 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I can get on board with that - although not sure about your ‘restated’ FFP loss. FFP losses exclude some costs, such as running costs of the Academy. Pure speculation on my part but I wouldn’t be surprised if we were still losing around £0.5m per month (excluding Administrator costs).

True, FFP loss is not total loss but you get my drift. I was just answering a poster who was saying there was something dodgy abut the administrators needing to borrow money. There isn't, especially if it is only to meet cash flow needs. 

And yes we probably are still making a loss atm. But a wealthy owner may well consider a manageable loss is worth it , to have a bit of fun and maybe  have a punt at getting into the big time.  Just not a loss of £30m to £40 m each year thank you. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by PistoldPete

[Ambitious]

10 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

There was a shortfall of £1mil a month back in 2016/2017. Questions were asked how long it could continue then. Losses probably aren’t as big per month now for day to day operations, I doubt many players are on high wages and some staff have been made redundant but there are fewer season ticket holders this year also. 

It easy to consider that Bielik, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Marshall and Byrne are going to be our higher earners. 

The rest of the senior pros bought prior to this year: Forsyth, Shinnie, Richards and Roos will be on a competitive Championship wage.

The likes of Sibley, Knight and Bird will be closer to the competitive championship wage, I’d bet. The rest, including the players signed this year, will be on £4500 a week or less, as per our restrictions or on a youth contract. 

People see our previous wage budgets and believe we’re still at that level, honestly wouldn’t discount us having one of the lowest median wage bills in the league, distorted by some large old contracts - many of which have been long gone.

I’d guess that our current losses probably equate to the interest on the debt we owe, perhaps.

 

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, rammieib said:

How does a bidder put a bid on the table if there is no deal with HMRC yet?

 

Can it not be a conditional bid? I.e. a bid subject to a certain agreement being reached with HMRC.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

3 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

It easy to consider that Bielik, Lawrence, Jozwiak, Marshall and Byrne are going to be our higher earners. 

The rest of the senior pros bought prior to this year: Forsyth, Shinnie, Richards and Roos will be on a competitive Championship wage.

The likes of Sibley, Knight and Bird will be closer to the competitive championship wage, I’d bet. The rest, including the players signed this year, will be on £4500 a week or less, as per our restrictions or on a youth contract. 

People see our previous wage budgets and believe we’re still at that level, honestly wouldn’t discount us having one of the lowest median wage bills in the league, distorted by some large old contracts - many of which have been long gone.

I’d guess that our current losses probably equate to the interest on the debt we owe, perhaps.

 

It’s probably the interest of the debt. I doubt DCFC will have very high wage bill now although what if the first five players you mentioned are on really high championship wages? Sorts of distorts the picture a bit. 
Regardless, I don’t know how MM thought it would be a good idea to keep running the club at a big loss for so long. Premier league or bust. 

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

There was a shortfall of £1mil a month back in 2016/2017. Questions were asked how long it could continue then. Losses probably aren’t as big per month now for day to day operations, I doubt many players are on high wages and some staff have been made redundant but there are fewer season ticket holders this year also. 

I think there was a shortfall of much more than £1m a month in 2016-17. And much less than that now but still a loss probably. 

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

It’s probably the interest of the debt. I doubt DCFC will have very high wage bill now although what if the first five players you mentioned are on really high championship wages? Sorts of distorts the picture a bit. 
Regardless, I don’t know how MM thought it would be a good idea to keep running the club at a big loss for so long. Premier league or bust. 

Pre COVID revenues were £30 m a year. Even with stadium open I don't think we will be at that level again yet... and won't be next year either in League 1.  Even so that revenue now would more than cover player wages. Interest on MSd Loan is what between £1m and £2m a year?

[Tamworthram]

11 hours ago, Ruud Aralliss said:

Is there any truth in Appleby asking the EFL how much it would cost to set up a club from scratch?

A strange and worrying question to ask if it is true. 

Have you really heard this rumour from a “reliable” source or has someone just made the story up?

Even if it were true, why would they be asking the EFL? As I understand it, the EFL only consists of The Championship, League 1 and League 2. There is no way that a brand new club would join the football pyramid anywhere near any of those levels.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

14 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think there was a shortfall of much more than £1m a month in 2016-17. And much less than that now but still a loss probably. 

Don’t know. I’m going by conversations with someone at the club (then). He was always questioning how long before MM had to sell because he just couldn’t sustain that level financially. Until that point I thought Morris was the best owner we could hope for  then I found out how much some of the players were earning ! Crazy ! 

[Ruud Aralliss]

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Have you really heard this rumour from a “reliable” source or has someone just made the story up?

Even if it were true, why would they be asking the EFL? As I understand it, the EFL only consists of The Championship, League 1 and League 2. There is no way that a brand new club would join the football pyramid anywhere near any of those levels.

This is why I was asking the question. I’m not claiming it came from someone completely ITK, but someone who seems to follow things closely and claims to know a few people.  It was an odd thing to be told, I admit. 

[jono]

11 hours ago, Hordh said:

So if any prospective buyer puts in a derisory offer then the HMRC can and probably would treat that as not being serious and push for liquidation. 

That’s how I see it. 
 

The admins job is to get the best deal for the creditors .. so a deal needs to be struck with a bidder that offers better terms for :

1) HMRC

2) any other preferred creditors 

3) general trade creditors 

4) MSD also .. but they will be less interested because they have security or a debenture over the stadium 

That deal they offer to them will be either a bid or liquidation. It is torture for us as fans but in a sense it is very simple. 

In a worst case scenario none of the bidders offer more than what HMRC think they can get by closing us down completely : which results in  flogging what’s left ( everything from players to the contents of the stationary cupboard ) 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/901400103/MR-MELVYN-MORRIS/summary

Not worth much anymore according to this or have I got it wrong? 

[TheSlate]

14 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Arn't theHMRC partly to blame for letting the club get into that much debt in the first place.

No, not really. I'm interested to find out about the winding up order in January 2020 that seemed to be active for about two weeks. Nobody seems to know what happened there. 

[PistoldPete]

16 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

https://companycheck.co.uk/director/901400103/MR-MELVYN-MORRIS/summary

Not worth much anymore according to this or have I got it wrong? 

A net worth of minus £70 million ?

hmm.. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Has he done a " lionel"? 

[I know nuffin]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

I can get on board with that - although not sure about your ‘restated’ FFP loss. FFP losses exclude some costs, such as running costs of the Academy. Pure speculation on my part but I wouldn’t be surprised if we were still losing around £0.5m per month (excluding Administrator costs).

Also much of this year's season ticket money, which was rolled over by the fans, was spent last year. The only gate money is away fans, new season ticket buyers and pay on the day type fans. Bound to have cash flow problems this year

[I know nuffin]

9 minutes ago, TheSlate said:

No, not really. I'm interested to find out about the winding up order in January 2020 that seemed to be active for about two weeks. Nobody seems to know what happened there. 

Wasn't that at the time the fake sheik was supposed to be taking us over and possibly pay that and players wages. He didn't come up with the cash and it took Morris a while to get the cash again possibly selling something to raise the money. Rich people are normally asset rich not cash rich

[TheSlate]

11 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Wasn't that at the time the fake sheik was supposed to be taking us over and possibly pay that and players wages. He didn't come up with the cash and it took Morris a while to get the cash again possibly selling something to raise the money. Rich people are normally asset rich not cash rich

No. Different times.