Angry Ram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, cjdlog said: Masks don't have any material affect and the inference seems to be that the covid situation is worsening. Cases are plummeting currently. It's the publics duty to push back against unevidenced rules. This is akin to the scotch egg with a pint rule, it does nothing other than make us question legitimate rules. Incoming ? Loslobos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, cjdlog said: Masks don't have any material affect and the inference seems to be that the covid situation is worsening. Cases are plummeting currently. It's the publics duty to push back against unevidenced rules. This is akin to the scotch egg with a pint rule, it does nothing other than make us question legitimate rules. The evidence from the BMJ, the WHO and Nature unequivocally demonstrates that's simply not the case https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n432 https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-masks https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8 The level of protection for the wearer, rather than other people, varies significantly with the type of mask though. RoyMac5 and Crewton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, cjdlog said: Masks don't have any material affect and the inference seems to be that the covid situation is worsening. Cases are plummeting currently. It's the publics duty to push back against unevidenced rules. This is akin to the scotch egg with a pint rule, it does nothing other than make us question legitimate rules. Cases are spiking again in South Derbyshire, haven't checked other areas. The first part of your post is best described as "tosh". kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong, ariotofmyown and atherstoneram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 I've generally worn a mask on the concourse, in toilets etc, and will continue to do so, because it's really no big thing and, unless there's a valid medical or psychological reason, people who refuse to wear one where it's requested or advised are big fannies and unforgivably selfish. Red Ram, Beetle, TuffLuff and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Crewton said: I've generally worn a mask on the concourse, in toilets etc, and will continue to do so, because it's really no big thing and, unless there's a valid medical or psychological reason, people who refuse to wear one where it's requested or advised are big fannies and unforgivably selfish. Think that’s the other way round , personally I won’t go anywhere that wants me to wear a mask , I will spend my money elsewhere ,people walking round with flimsy ill fitting bits of paper or cloth on they’re face and expecting everyone else to do the same is the height of daftness and selfish , done it once in a restaurant, sit at table no mask get up put one on ,it was like a monty python sketch ,I’m happy to see a two tier society on that issue ,god I keep well away from mask zealots they give me the heeby geebys Edited September 17, 2021 by Archied Loslobos and devonram1980 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Archied said: Think that’s the other way round , personally I won’t go anywhere that wants me to wear a mask , I will spend my money elsewhere ,people walking round with flimsy ill fitting bits of paper or cloth on they’re face and expecting everyone else to do the same is the height of daftness and selfish , done it once in a restaurant, sit at table no mask get up put one on ,it was like a monty python sketch ,I’m happy to see a two tier society on that issue ,god I keep well away from mask zealots they give me the heeby geebys Let's hope you don't need to visit anyone at the Royal Derby anytime soon then, eh? Tamworthram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loslobos Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Red Ram said: The evidence from the BMJ, the WHO and Nature unequivocally demonstrates that's simply not the case https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n432 https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-masks https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8 The level of protection for the wearer, rather than other people, varies significantly with the type of mask though. It was consensus prior to pandemic that a virus can't be stopped with a cloth or surgical mask. Nothing has changed on that, which is why the WHO states the evidence for them is weak. In the UK, masks were pushed by spi-b the psychological branch of sage, they became a political issue. To the person who said I'm talking tosh, please look up the stats, we've been having 15-25% week on week fall in cases for 2 weeks. Edited September 17, 2021 by cjdlog Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, cjdlog said: It was consensus prior to pandemic that a virus can't be stopped with a cloth or surgical mask. Nothing has changed on that, which is why the WHO states the evidence for them is weak. In the UK, masks were pushed by spi-b the psychological branch of sage, they became a political issue. To the person who said I'm talking tosh, please look up the stats, we've been having 15-25% week on week fall in cases for 2 weeks. I've looked at the stats - infections have gone up in South Derbyshire (like I said) to the highest level since the November figures that caused Christmas to be cancelled. The 7-day average is down approx 20% nationally in the last week, but schools have only just gone back and most Universities don't start until the end of September. Don't hold your breath. Or, rather, do, because that might help to reduce infections ? The mask stuff from folk like you is getting tedious. No-one ever pushed masks as a panacea against infection. They're part of a number of measures that can be taken to reduce the risk of infection and, since it's been long established now that this virus spreads principally and most effectively via airborne droplets from an infected person, wearing a mask in crowded or stuffy places is still recommended as a measure for reducing the risk of transferring your infection TO ANOTHER PERSON. The tinfoil hat stuff you also posted belongs on "other" forums, not here, because it's paranoid nonsense. kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, cjdlog said: It was consensus prior to pandemic that a virus can't be stopped with a cloth or surgical mask. Nothing has changed on that, which is why the WHO states the evidence for them is weak. In the UK, masks were pushed by spi-b the psychological branch of sage, they became a political issue. To the person who said I'm talking tosh, please look up the stats, we've been having 15-25% week on week fall in cases for 2 weeks. You are correct that there has been a downturn in cases at the national level over the last week or so as per https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases But the most recent day we have complete data for is September 10th. There were 28,6222 compared with 'only' 3,580 for September 10th 2020. As I said earlier, we all know what happened last winter and the most important metric is the number of people in hospital which is four times higher than this time last year. The fact that the cases are 8 times higher and hospitalisations are 'just' 4 times higher is down to the vaccines but it won't be enough to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. And no, I don't have a crystal ball but I don't need one to see what's going to happen next unless action is taken now. Edited September 17, 2021 by Red Ram Crewton and atherstoneram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 Coronavirus threads.. Welcome to hell ? Gringo, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong, angieram and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Crewton said: I've generally worn a mask on the concourse, in toilets etc, and will continue to do so, because it's really no big thing and, unless there's a valid medical or psychological reason, people who refuse to wear one where it's requested or advised are big fannies and unforgivably selfish. I wear a mask for 9 hours a day and have decided that away from work is my chance to breathe properly, I don't give a toss if you think it's selfish. Bald Eadle Army 2020, Angry Ram and Kathcairns 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, Crewton said: Let's hope you don't need to visit anyone at the Royal Derby anytime soon then, eh? You mean a setting where PROPER masks are actually appropriate ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Red Ram said: You are correct that there has been a downturn in cases at the national level over the last week or so as per https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases But the most recent day we have complete data for is September 10th. There were 28,6222 compared with 'only' 3,580 for September 10th 2020. As I said earlier, we all know what happened last winter and the most important metric is the number of people in hospital which is four times higher than this time last year. The fact that the cases are 8 times higher and hospitalisations are 'just' 4 times higher is down to the vaccines but it won't be enough to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. And no, I don't have a crystall ball but I don't need one to see what's going to happen next unless action is taken now. Is it code red situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Archied said: You mean a setting where PROPER masks are actually appropriate ??♂️ They don't dictate the kind of mask that you wear. The purpose is the same as wearing one on a bus or on the concourse at Pride Park. Underlying it all is respect for others, or a lack of it. That's your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loslobos Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Red Ram said: You are correct that there has been a downturn in cases at the national level over the last week or so as per https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases But the most recent day we have complete data for is September 10th. There were 28,6222 compared with 'only' 3,580 for September 10th 2020. As I said earlier, we all know what happened last winter and the most important metric is the number of people in hospital which is four times higher than this time last year. The fact that the cases are 8 times higher and hospitalisations are 'just' 4 times higher is down to the vaccines but it won't be enough to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. And no, I don't have a crystal ball but I don't need one to see what's going to happen next unless action is taken now. I take your point, but probably not a good idea to make like for like comparisons on months of the year. We're in a very different situation to last year with a highly efficacious vaccine and high levels of natural immunity. We also have a largely opened society and have seen no sustained increase in cases. This points to HIT being hit for the moment. This threshold could/will change in winter, absolutely, but it's not a comparable to last year. We need to wait and see. Ultimately though, there is little evidence for masks in lab tests, rct trials or in the copious amount of real world data. Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) This was meant to be a thread discussing the particular requirements at Pride Park. I think it's turned into another coronavirus thread now so if you wish to continue the discussion, please do so over there. Here's the link: Edited September 17, 2021 by angieram Add link Carl Sagan and kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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