Ken Tram Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Tamworthram said: I don’t quite follow your logic with this statement: Many detractors say, "If only Mel had taken different decisions," but this is the same as saying, "If only we had a local fans, with loads of money, who had made some different decisions." But, I'm not sure that there is a local fan with loads of money who would have made different decisions. Aren’t the detractors just saying they wish he’d shown something similar to the sound financial decision making he must adopt in his business dealings given what a successful business man he is? I say “similar” because I know running a football club isn’t the same as running a business but he appears to have allowed the club descend to a perilous position (even before Covid). Being a local fan is a nice bonus but certainly not essential. I’m grateful to Mel for his passion for the club and desire to get us into the premier league but he would seem to have made mistakes and for this has rightly been criticised (or moaned at as you say) but, you can’t just say “oh well he tried his best and had the best of intentions so it’s all OK”. You’re right, we all make mistakes but we have to be accountable for them. The big caveat to the above is that none of us really know what’s gone on (hence your use of the word “perceived I guess). Good point. I'm probably trying a bit too hard to see things from the best angle. I wouldn't be surprised if the way that he's run Derby is based on the ways that he achieved success in his other businesses. I don't suppose he would have bought any other club. The paradox is that if he should have known better - or did know better - why he didn't do things differently. And assuming that he intended to make the best decisions - could things have gone any differently. I get the argument: "I wish you'd never been involved." But, I'm not sure that we should be too mean because it didn't work out. There are some chairmen who asset strip, and almost deliberately and intentionally do harm to a club. And I don't think I've read many people suggesting that, if any. I think of it from my own perspective. There are many things in life I could have done better, and wish I had done differently. But, fit whatever reason, I took the decisions that I took. I don't think that I am a bad person, just because I could have done things better. I guess that is partially the distinction that the moderators are making, between criticism and insults. LeedsCityRam and ck- 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 27 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yep. And when that owner (like say, the Yanks) says no can do look for cheaper options, then we fans will live with it! Im sure there were protests against GSE when they did that. Ken Tram and rynny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Im sure there were protests against GSE when they did that. I'm sure there were, but that is the point, they didn't waver. Morris is all about 'his legacy'. I want our club to be safe, it isn't with Morris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck- Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, Ken Tram said: Good point. I'm probably trying a bit too hard to see things from the best angle. I wouldn't be surprised if the way that he's run Derby is based on the ways that he achieved success in his other businesses. I don't suppose he would have bought any other club. The paradox is that if he should have known better - or did know better - why he didn't do things differently. And assuming that he intended to make the best decisions - could things have gone any differently. I get the argument: "I wish you'd never been involved." But, I'm not sure that we should be too mean because it didn't work out. There are some chairmen who asset strip, and almost deliberately and intentionally do harm to a club. And I don't think I've read many people suggesting that, if any. I think of it from my own perspective. There are many things in life I could have done better, and wish I had done differently. But, fit whatever reason, I took the decisions that I took. I don't think that I am a bad person, just because I could have done things better. I guess that is partially the distinction that the moderators are making, between criticism and insults. I think this is spot on. I will not throw insults at Mel Morris, because regardless of the end result, for a long time I believe he was genuinely trying to invest to get us promoted. But, neither will I offer plaudits or make excuses for the outcome. Ultimately we fell short, and I do think some of that is down to poor investment - not calling into question the amount, just the use of it. I have made some unfair comments in here in the heat of the moment, but I’d like to think that when we are allowed back in the ground, and if Mel is present, then the supporters will give him a rousing reception for his good intentions, and just forget the end result for a few moments. He tried! Of course that’s far more likely if we stay up ? Ken Tram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 42 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I'm sure there were, but that is the point, they didn't waver. Morris is all about 'his legacy'. I want our club to be safe, it isn't with Morris. Doesnt that just highlight the point that, unless you're winning things, there will always be fans that are unhappy with the owners? Fans protested against GSE because they would invest enough to make us competitive. Fans now want to protest against MM for putting in too much money. In terms of being financially stable, when fans are allowed back in and some more contracts ending, Id guess we are in a similar situation to when MM took us over. rynny and Ken Tram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Doesnt that just highlight the point that, unless you're winning things, there will always be fans that are unhappy with the owners? Fans protested against GSE because they would invest enough to make us competitive. Fans now want to protest against MM for putting in too much money. In terms of being financially stable, when fans are allowed back in and some more contracts ending, Id guess we are in a similar situation to when MM took us over. What? We're now massively in debt with nothing left to hock! Thanks Mel. Fans might have been unhappy with small spends but at least the clubs existence wasn't threatened like currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What? We're now massively in debt with nothing left to hock! Thanks Mel. Fans might have been unhappy with small spends but at least the clubs existence wasn't threatened like currently. Who do we owe this massive amount of money to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, rynny said: Who do we owe this massive amount of money to? How much do you think Mel is trying to sell the club, mortgaged Academy and perhaps highly priced ground for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: How much do you think Mel is trying to sell the club, mortgaged Academy and perhaps highly priced ground for? What has that got to do with the club being "massively in debt"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, rynny said: What has that got to do with the club being "massively in debt"? Mel wants his money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Mel wants his money back. You said the club are "massively in debt" so who does the club owe this money to? If someone wants to buy the club that isn't a club debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: What? We're now massively in debt with nothing left to hock! Thanks Mel. Fans might have been unhappy with small spends but at least the clubs existence wasn't threatened like currently. Where have you got the information that the club is massively in debt? ThePrisoner, LeedsCityRam and rynny 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, rynny said: You said the club are "massively in debt" so who does the club owe this money to? If someone wants to buy the club that isn't a club debt. So the club aren't in debt then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: So the club aren't in debt then? You claimed the club are "massively in debt", I want to know who we are massively in debt to. I don't know, that's why I'm asking you to verify your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, rynny said: You claimed the club are "massively in debt", I want to know who we are massively in debt to. I don't know, that's why I'm asking you to verify your claim. Tell me how I'm wrong then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Tell me how I'm wrong then. Show me where I have said that. I have said I don't know whether or not we owe money. You said we are "massively in debt" I've asked you to prove it. You keep dodging the question and trying to change the conversation. Andicis and LeedsCityRam 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, rynny said: Show me where I have said that. I have said I don't know whether or not we owe money. You said we are "massively in debt" I've asked you to prove it. You keep dodging the question and trying to change the conversation. I don't have the exact figures to hand but we are losing money each season, we are in big debt only lessened by selling our ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Just now, RoyMac5 said: I don't have the exact figures to hand but we are losing money each season, we are in big debt only lessened by selling our ground. I've not asked the amount, I've asked who are we in debt to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, rynny said: I've not asked the amount, I've asked who are we in debt to? Whoever owns the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Whoever owns the club. Per the last accounts available in the public domain the club were owed circa £80m from their parent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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