The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Eddie]

One final one, totally in context but showing the fundamental problem with entrenched positions, demonstrating why further participation in this thread is utterly futile...

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

I think that given the fact a number of experts have stated that we simply can't know the long effects of the new MRNA vaccines and that they are already showing unexpected behaviours I find it concerning that not only this Government, but Governments all around the world quickly moved from reopening after we've vaccinated the elderly and vulnerable to vaccinating the entire population.

We're basically hoping that everything will be fine and any long term effects will be inconsequential at best.  

I am not sure I would have taken that approach given that the vast majority of under 50s, certainly those decades under 50, are at minimal risk to begin with.  Surely the mass vaccination of an entire population should come with absolutely zero risk? 

Ideally yes, but the extension of the vaccination program is clearly driven by the desperate need to return to a functioning economy/society - which is something we all want - obviously. 

So it's a calculated risk I guess, and I'm not sure that there was any other option that didn't involve more deaths, more lockdowns, more economic collapse etc

 

 

[Archied]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Ideally yes, but the extension of the vaccination program is clearly driven by the desperate need to return to a functioning economy/society - which is something we all want - obviously. 

So it's a calculated risk I guess, and I'm not sure that there was any other option that didn't involve more deaths, more lockdowns, more economic collapse etc

 

 

You’ve skipped the part where we can return to a functioning society by vaccinating to old and vulnerable , sad really as the question was about vaccinating those that don’t need it ??‍♂️, par for the course though

[Bob The Badger]

I'm about half way through this book.

I strongly advise everybody on this board to avoid it like the plague, or Covid for that matter.

Otherwise, it will get very boring around here very quickly.

It is an excellent book, but not for the close-minded.

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

You’ve skipped the part where we can return to a functioning society by vaccinating to old and vulnerable , sad really as the question was about vaccinating those that don’t need it ??‍♂️, par for the course though

mate - please can you stop just trying to have a dig at me for everything I say - I was trying to make a reasonable response to Max's post

There is no need for you to act like this. 

 

[Archied]

4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

mate - please can you stop just trying to have a dig at me for everything I say - I was trying to make a reasonable response to Max's post

There is no need for you to act like this. 

 

Ok but you did skip the point that was being debated ie the young being pressurised into taking vaccine as that’s our only way back to normal life ??‍♂️

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, Archied said:

Ok but you did skip the point that was being debated ie the young being pressurised into taking vaccine as that’s our only way back to normal life ??‍♂️

Did I? I was just wondering what the alternatives were, and highlighting the obvious paradox inherent in wanting to get the economy and society functioning again whilst also not wanting to pressurise young people into taking a vaccine for something they are highly unlikely to die from and that we don't have long term effects data on

For the record - my 25 year old son is refusing the vaccine for much the same reasons as Max's lad of a similar age

I've put no pressure on him - it's his body, his choice 

But at the same time - mass vaccination is still the clearest path back to normality

I'm not looking for an argument - I'm just saying that I get it's a really hard choice and far from ideal

[GboroRam]

5 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Did I? I was just wondering what the alternatives were, and highlighting the obvious paradox inherent in wanting to get the economy and society functioning again whilst also not wanting to pressurise young people into taking a vaccine for something they are highly unlikely to die from and that we don't have long term effects data on

For the record - my 25 year old son is refusing the vaccine for much the same reasons as Max's lad of a similar age

I've put no pressure on him - it's his body, his choice 

But at the same time - mass vaccination is still the clearest path back to normality

I'm not looking for an argument - I'm just saying that I get it's a really hard choice and far from ideal

And nobody has said vaccination is 100% safe. But the risks are very low.

The biggest risk is anaphylaxis - which is why there's a 15 minute wait after your jab. Most reactions will have occurred within that time, and you'll get quick treatment and care if you start reacting badly to the injection. 

There is a small risk of blood clots, but it's small enough risk that, even for the younger generation, you will be far more at risk of health issues from Covid than you will be at risk of suffering clots related to the vaccine.

This thread is actually pretty funny in my opinion, as it's a small but vocal group railing against health measures that have been brought in to minimise the effect of a global virus. It's pretty much the standard response of almost every country in the world (with some variation in capability around enforcement of strict controls, about adherence to mask wearing and to reactiveness to rolling out vaccinations). And we're still waiting to understand who benefits from all this, why the world has almost universally reacted with the same measures (barring one or two, who mostly have had horrific experiences by not doing enough).

[ariotofmyown]

51 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

This thread is actually pretty funny in my opinion, as it's a small but vocal group railing against health measures that have been brought in to minimise the effect of a global virus.

It also seems that most of the group who are railing against vaccinations are also the ones who have been most keen to return to normal asap.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It also seems that most of the group who are railing against vaccinations are also the ones who have been most keen to return to normal asap.

Exactly - that's why I was making the point that I see the obvious contradiction and therefore it's not an easy choice

Even when I try to be the voice of reason I get shouted at! ?

 

 

[Archied]

19 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Exactly - that's why I was making the point that I see the obvious contradiction and therefore it's not an easy choice

Even when I try to be the voice of reason I get shouted at! ?

 

 

You were not shouted at , you stated the push was clearly to be able to return to normal as fact ,

money has been spent on these vaccines ( the temp short term non profit included)

there will have to be a return on this investment which maybe won’t be up to scratch if you only vaccinate those at risk as opposed to EVERYBODY on earth including children once they push through the data saying it’s safe , don’t even start me on poor African nation s with death rates dwarfed by malaria , hiv, and other stuff,

If you state stuff as fact then expect to be questioned, no shouting or personal insults ?‍♂️

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, Archied said:

You were not shouted at , you stated the push was clearly to be able to return to normal as fact

I'm not entirely sure I follow what you're berating me for. 

are you saying that the push is being driven by some other nefarious agenda to simply make profits for big pharma?

I'd say that's a happy (for big pharma) side effect rather than the global agenda

 

 

[Archied]

16 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm not entirely sure I follow what you're berating me for. 

are you saying that the push is being driven by some other nefarious agenda to simply make profits for big pharma?

I'd say that's a happy (for big pharma) side effect rather than the global agenda

 

 

Really? Shouting ? Berating ? Do you really want to play the bullied victimised card on a forum where you argue your point every bit as much and more than most ?

This global agenda conspiracy stuff is boring and rather predictable none sense that gets trotted out from the same few along with the other well worn accusations in other areas of debate , I have made my position clear , I believe there is a virus , I believe it kills some ??‍♂️
I believe it is also being used and milked by many for other agenda s ,

you and other s disagree and swallow everything you are fed without question , no probs but don’t expect to not be pulled on stuff you post ,

there are a few on here who are not the stated noisy minority causing probs they are the few that are brave enough to put up with the constant name calling and attempts to ridicule or label / stain as one thing or another??‍♂️

Edited June 23, 2021 by Archied

[GboroRam]

Here's what MD says in Private Eye. He's a real doctor, if anyone's not aware who he is. Argument showing some of the thinking behind delaying the opening back up.

"Hospitalisations are up by 50 percent in a week, and deaths by 8 per cent. The numbers are small compared to January. But exponential growth has left us for dead three times before. Do we err on the side of caution or optimism?

"As ever, different scientific advisers have different predictions: from a third wave that is "considerably smaller" than January, to one that is "considerably larger". Would lifting the remaining restrictions now overwhelm (some) hospitals? SAGE cannot say with confidence either way. But it does think even a short delay in full-fat freedom would lead to a significant drop in hospital admissions for Covid (and allow more people to get vaccinated). Eventually, individuals will be left alone to decide the risks they pose to themselves and others (as football supporters are already vividly demonstrating)."

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Here's what MD says in Private Eye. He's a real doctor, if anyone's not aware who he is. Argument showing some of the thinking behind delaying the opening back up.

"Hospitalisations are up by 50 percent in a week, and deaths by 8 per cent.

I don't suppose anyone watched the GB News clips I've posted in this thread, but Andrew Neil has been saying the same for the past couple of weeks ? 

Hospital admissions are up, but deaths remain low.  IIRC he stated the average age of the person being hospitalised is 24 and the amount of time being spent in hospital is short, often just a night or two. Covid now accounts for less than 1% of all deaths and 1/3 councils have had 0 covid deaths since April.

It seems to be largely passing through the younger, unvaccinated population now most of whom only need a short stay in hospital should they even need to go in the first place.

 

19 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

But exponential growth has left us for dead three times before. Do we err on the side of caution or optimism?

Again, according to one of the videos I posted, the vaccines are 96% effective at keeping people out of hospital so there is every reason to be optimistic ?

[Comrade 86]

6 hours ago, Archied said:

You kind of weaken your own case , over a long period of time our political leaders / puppets have become increasingly dumb self serving clowns with the integrity of a fox , they get elected by a public given Hobson’s choice and bombarded by social media and media, the usual suspects will be along next to call me a conspiracy nut but then will shout from the rafters how Russia , China and the like get their most hated politicians like trump or their most hated policies like the big B voted in ??,

seems we all have our own pet conspiracies that are either good or make you a nut ?

Laugh away mate but I've consistently derided the Boris and his cronies as a weak-minded, self-serving and not fit for purpose, from start to finish., so I'm not sure why you feel the need to advise me of a fact of which I've always been aware. That said, I find your assertion that everyone who doesn't share your precise opinion to be some sort of blinkered sheep a bit tiresome, to be honest.

For the record, I've simply asked what it is you are alluding to in specific terms and once again (and for the gazillionth time), you've failed to offer any kind of coherent response. People aren't calling you a 'conspiracy nut' they are asking what it is you mean. Not sure what that is that's so hard for you to grasp  ?‍♂️

[Gone]

Erm ?

 

[ariotofmyown]

30 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I don't suppose anyone watched the GB News clips I've posted in this thread, but Andrew Neil has been saying the same for the past couple of weeks ? 

Yes I did and also commented on it. It was one from the launch night I think, entitled "Boris bottles it". Neil started with saying how Johnson bottled it, before going onto say it was a prudent decision he agreed with.

I found it funny as I was imagining the disappointment of many viewers that the new "anti-establishment" news channel was saying the same as everywhere else.

I also found it a bit sad that he had to use the clickbait language of "bottling" for something he agreed with. I guess they are just trying to generate revenue.

[ramit]

No going back to normal in the foreseeable future.  Lovely.

 

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, ramit said:

No going back to normal in the foreseeable future.  Lovely.

 

Not watched it, saw the same headline on their website earlier and ignored it that as well ? 

I think people will pay about as much attention to that as their other gem last week - telling all women of childbearing age to avoid alcohol

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/who-alcohol-women-pregnancy-report-b1867960.html

I dunno what the rules are anymore but I don't think I'm following any of them.