The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

10 hours ago, GboroRam said:

As MD said, we needed an open conversation about the risk of vaccines vs the risk of covid. We never trusted the public enough to have that conversation. Maybe they were right not to, as it seems there's a very vocal minority who aren't interested in the science, of which I include you in that group. The noise from that group has drowned out some legitimate discussion. 

Happy to be included in that group of nutters who didn’t believe the science/ experts that gave us a virus that got you if you were in a pub    drinking but gave you a swerve if you were eating a scotch egg , the ones that told me I could work all day with someone but couldn’t have a round of golf with them or a cup of tee round they’re house ,the ones that told me a piece of cloth fashion accessory with pics of my football team or skulls would save me and MUST be worn , the ones that forbid the use of open spaces for exercise and lock ourselves in producing obesity , depression and ill health , the ones that told us we MUST have a vaccine and vaccine passes to live and work even though it was clear these vaccines did not stop spread,the ones pumping vaccine into babies , the ones that told me stay in but we can party on dude ,,' shall I go on as there’s multitudes 

include away my friend I am proud not to have been so stupid to swallow that fear driven rubbish 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Happy to be included in that group of nutters who didn’t believe the science/ experts that gave us a virus that got you if you were in a pub    drinking but gave you a swerve if you were eating a scotch egg , the ones that told me I could work all day with someone but couldn’t have a round of golf with them or a cup of tee round they’re house ,the ones that told me a piece of cloth fashion accessory with pics of my football team or skulls would save me and MUST be worn , the ones that forbid the use of open spaces for exercise and lock ourselves in producing obesity , depression and ill health , the ones that told us we MUST have a vaccine and vaccine passes to live and work even though it was clear these vaccines did not stop spread,the ones pumping vaccine into babies , the ones that told me stay in but we can party on dude ,,' shall I go on as there’s multitudes 

include away my friend I am proud not to have been so stupid to swallow that fear driven rubbish 

I imagine that you were one of those expert virologists who were urging the government not to ban large social gatherings and impose a lockdown at a time when to have done so would certainly have slowed the spread of the virus and reduced the number of deaths by giving hospitals and care homes the chance to prepare for the inevitable instead of being overloaded within a couple of months of the first case in the UK being identified. I also imagine that you will never admit that you were wrong, even to yourself. 

[Archied]

18 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I imagine that you were one of those expert virologists who were urging the government not to ban large social gatherings and impose a lockdown at a time when to have done so would certainly have slowed the spread of the virus and reduced the number of deaths by giving hospitals and care homes the chance to prepare for the inevitable instead of being overloaded within a couple of months of the first case in the UK being identified. I also imagine that you will never admit that you were wrong, even to yourself. 

I imagine you are one of those who will totally ignore the huge list of undeniably stupid nonsense like some of the stuff posted ,,,,ohhhh hang on it’s not imagination,, you’ve just done it????
strangly enough there’s nothing I value / enjoy more in myself than finding my opinion was/ is wrong and being able to change and admit it , even done it a few times on here ,

perhaps your projecting your own faults??‍♂️

Edited November 6, 2022 by Archied

[G STAR RAM]

21 hours ago, Crewton said:

I imagine that you were one of those expert virologists who were urging the government not to ban large social gatherings and impose a lockdown at a time when to have done so would certainly have slowed the spread of the virus and reduced the number of deaths by giving hospitals and care homes the chance to prepare for the inevitable instead of being overloaded within a couple of months of the first case in the UK being identified. I also imagine that you will never admit that you were wrong, even to yourself. 

Reduced the number of deaths or kicked the can down the road?

 

[Crewton]

55 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Reduced the number of deaths or kicked the can down the road?

 

Flattened the curve by allowing institutions to catch up with resources that should have been in place already but weren't because the government had ignored recommendations for pandemic planning. 

[Mostyn6]

 

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

Flattened the curve by allowing institutions to catch up with resources that should have been in place already but weren't because the government had ignored recommendations for pandemic planning. 

so you didn't know (was not aware of) how many empty hospital wards there actually was at a time when the propaganda and scaremongering stated the opposite.

[Crewton]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

 

so you didn't know (was not aware of) how many empty hospital wards there actually was at a time when the propaganda and scaremongering stated the opposite.

I know what bed occupancy rates were like in ICUs across the country, and I know what it was like in at least three major hospitals because I've got relatives in those, and also what it was like in the hospitals for one large northern PCT because I had a long chat about it with the COO. What I didn't take much notice of was photos of empty hospital wards posted on SM by Covid vigilantes. 

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, Crewton said:

Flattened the curve by allowing institutions to catch up with resources that should have been in place already but weren't because the government had ignored recommendations for pandemic planning. 

What other resources would they have been?

Didnt the lockdown between March and June give them time to catch up with these resources?

If so, how come we ended up having an even longer lockdown the second time around?

[Gone]

After 32 months, Sweden – the country that famously rejected lockdowns and school closures in spring 2020 – has the lowest cumulative excess mortality in the world, in a damning indictment of lockdown orthodoxy

[Archied]

1 hour ago, TexasRam said:

After 32 months, Sweden – the country that famously rejected lockdowns and school closures in spring 2020 – has the lowest cumulative excess mortality in the world, in a damning indictment of lockdown orthodoxy

Oh come on , you know there will be mitigating factors , data can only be taken at face value if it suits

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

After 32 months, Sweden – the country that famously rejected lockdowns and school closures in spring 2020 – has the lowest cumulative excess mortality in the world, in a damning indictment of lockdown orthodoxy

Where are you getting that data from?

I've searched and can't find anything to back that statement up.

[Gone]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where are you getting that data from?

I've searched and can't find anything to back that statement up.

32 month average find it in the table here https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Excess_mortality_-_statistics#Excess_mortality_in_the_EU_between_January_2020_and_August_2022

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, TexasRam said:

32 month average find it in the table here https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Excess_mortality_-_statistics#Excess_mortality_in_the_EU_between_January_2020_and_August_2022

Thank you.

You probably should have pointed out that it was in the EU, so the sample size is only 28.

It is an interesting stat still nonetheless. 

[Archied]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thank you.

You probably should have pointed out that it was in the EU, so the sample size is only 28.

It is an interesting stat still nonetheless. 

In the interests of balance and fairness ( something I’m accused of not being over a few topics on here ) I’ve looked at the numbers for percentage of population vaccinated against other countries and can’t see too much difference there ,, someone better at researching might find out if there is any difference numbers wise regards which vaccine given has any possible bearing ,

excess deaths worldwide,,, an area that really needs to be investigated openly without fear or bias , not one I have biased set views on

[Stive Pesley]

25 minutes ago, Archied said:

In the interests of balance and fairness ( something I’m accused of not being over a few topics on here ) I’ve looked at the numbers for percentage of population vaccinated against other countries and can’t see too much difference there ,, someone better at researching might find out if there is any difference numbers wise regards which vaccine given has any possible bearing ,

excess deaths worldwide,,, an area that really needs to be investigated openly without fear or bias , not one I have biased set views on

Let's be honest - what we should all really be focussing on is letting the experts crunch the data globally and let that inform future generations as to the optimum strategy for handling future deadly pandemics

In a pandemic where people will die if we do nothing, there is no "best answer" only the "least worst answer"

We've all debated at length the different countries adopted strategies, and how these are all shaped by so many factors - their population, population density, culture and demographics. So we know that there will never be a one-size-fits all approach

In many ways it's brilliant that countries all adopted different strategies, as this produces the best set of real world data to analyse

We owe it to the 6 million people who have died as a result of covid, and the countless others who have suffered or died from the effects of lockdowns and vaccinations to stop bickering amongst ourselves and look with positivity to how we can make sure next time (and there will be a next time) we know what to do for the best

 

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Let's be honest - what we should all really be focussing on is letting the experts crunch the data globally and let that inform future generations as to the optimum strategy for handling future deadly pandemics

In a pandemic where people will die if we do nothing, there is no "best answer" only the "least worst answer"

We've all debated at length the different countries adopted strategies, and how these are all shaped by so many factors - their population, population density, culture and demographics. So we know that there will never be a one-size-fits all approach

In many ways it's brilliant that countries all adopted different strategies, as this produces the best set of real world data to analyse

We owe it to the 6 million people who have died as a result of covid, and the countless others who have suffered or died from the effects of lockdowns and vaccinations to stop bickering amongst ourselves and look with positivity to how we can make sure next time (and there will be a next time) we know what to do for the best

 

It will take a bit of putting right as people really were treated very badly for not agreeing with the narrative whether that be to a small extent or large , yes hopefully it will get to that point but I think some kind of acceptance by the gov and the people who supported every policy and tactic which divided people and led to people being labelled as granny killers , loons , uncaring ,never mind people having to leave loved ones to die alone , lose livelihoods ect ect , there a very long list , 

i don’t say the above out of spite just but rather in the hope that people realise that many have been been treated very badly over covid and if that is just ignored and glossed over divide s may not ever properly be repaired 

[Stive Pesley]

41 minutes ago, Archied said:

It will take a bit of putting right as people really were treated very badly for not agreeing with the narrative whether that be to a small extent or large , yes hopefully it will get to that point but I think some kind of acceptance by the gov and the people who supported every policy and tactic which divided people and led to people being labelled as granny killers , loons , uncaring ,never mind people having to leave loved ones to die alone , lose livelihoods ect ect , there a very long list , 

i don’t say the above out of spite just but rather in the hope that people realise that many have been been treated very badly over covid and if that is just ignored and glossed over divide s may not ever properly be repaired 

Well that's kind of my point, we really need to start forgiving each other and realise that this was an unprecedented thing for which the world seemed largely unprepared. It was a massive trauma for everyone. We have to stop thinking of it as being wrong or right

The use of the word "narrative" grates in general, because at the end of the day we are governed by the leaders we choose. They had to decide what to do on our behalf. No one was ever going to agree with there choices 100%. I certainly didn't. "Narrative" simply means the decisions taken by those in charge. If people are upset that they were treated badly for not agreeing with those decisions then that's fair enough, but it's not all about them. Are they as upset as the people who saw loved ones die? It's not a competition, yet there seem to be some who still labour under the belief that there was some kind of perfect scenario through covid where no one died, no one disagreed with the actions taken, the economy was not broken, the NHS wasn't overwhelmed and there were no long lasting effects on society

 

[Anon]

No.

Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. The majority of people just tried to muddle through a bad situation in the best way they could, but there were plenty who cheered on restrictions to people's freedoms/livelihoods and fully supported suppression of information. I have absolutely no intention of reconciling with such people.

[Stive Pesley]

That's the spirit. 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

No.

Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. The majority of people just tried to muddle through a bad situation in the best way they could, but there were plenty who cheered on restrictions to people's freedoms/livelihoods and fully supported suppression of information. I have absolutely no intention of reconciling with such people.

I'm not sure anyone really did "cheer on" the restriction of people's freedoms, since they were having their own freedoms restricted too, but I do remember groups of "freedom fighters" filming themselves picketing hospitals and invading wards etc, and others harassing public officials in the streets, accusing doctors of being murderers etc. That category of protester can swivel for forgiveness.