The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[ariotofmyown]

21 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Don’t get me wrong it’s a hell of a lot of money but it does include the hundreds of thousands of tests a day plus all the people and equipment to do it. It’s not like it’s just the app. 

Fair enough, I was thinking that was just on the app! Thought I must have missed something.

That makes it a much more reasonable 370k people earning 50k for each of the 2 years.

[Rev]

Most places have an alternative qr code you can scan and sign in that way.

[maxjam]

28 minutes ago, ketteringram said:

We were at Imperial war museum at Duxford a couple of weeks ago. On the way in, there's a guy telling you to check in with the app, and pointing to the QR thingy. 

Neither of us have ever had the app, so basically just got phone out and took a picture of the notice. 

I do have the standard NHS app, which has your vaccinated record on etc, but not the trace one. Mrs is a teacher , and was told from the start by her boss, not to download it. 

I'm even worse than that ? 

I literally only have a phone for 2 factor authentication purposes.  It is on permanent charge on my desk and has never left my house!  Its got a couple of games on it, the DCFC app and thats it.

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Fair enough, I was thinking that was just on the app! Thought I must have missed something.

That makes it a much more reasonable 370k people earning 50k for each of the 2 years.

FWIW

https://fullfact.org/health/test-trace-march-2021/

 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, maxjam said:

FWIW

https://fullfact.org/health/test-trace-march-2021/

 

Problem is, when you have high profile characters like Corbyn making the claims, then you are going to be getting people on forums repeating it.

Funnily enough it tends to be the people that accused 52% of voters of not properly researching facts on another very important issue.

Edited July 10, 2021 by G STAR RAM

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Problem is, when you have high profile characters like Corbyn making the claims, then you are going to be getting people on forums repeating it.

Funnily enough it tends to be the people that accused 52% of voters of not properly researching facts on another very important issue.

“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.” - Mark Twain.

Unfortunately in this day and age lies can quickly become fact and only get corrected/removed if it offends facebook/twitter/youtube etc.

 

[Archied]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Granny killa!

I know the track and trace app isn't great, but look, it hardly cost anything right?

I really want to know how it's possible to spend so much on something that looks fairly basic.

It's budget is 37 billion over 2 years.

If the people working on it were being paid a ridiculous salary of 250k per year, or 500k over 2 years, then they could afford to employ 74,000 people on that salary.

Can anyone see any reason why the costs are so high? Just need to keep a record of devices a person has been close too via blutooth with a few metrics like time and distance.

Then when one of those devices links to a positive test, run a model to decide who to ping.

37 billion! As this government report says, the annual budget for transport is 22 billion. Building and repairing transport infrastructure seems like it would be a pretty expensive business. Building an app like this seems trivial in comparison.

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/906/covid19-test-track-and-trace-part-1/news/150988/unimaginable-cost-of-test-trace-failed-to-deliver-central-promise-of-averting-another-lockdown/

Is this the biggest scandal of Covid?

You mean apart from the advertising budget spent on driving home total fear to the nation through newspapers tv , radio ect ect who won’t bite the hand that feeds them with balanced reporting and proper questions/ investigative journalism as the arse has dropped out their normal advertising,??‍♂️,

there is a virus but make no mistake time will expose the manipulation of it 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Archied

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I'm coming to the same conclusion. Deleting the app feels wrong, as I'd want to know so i can do lateral flows to be on the safe side, and manage my own risk about who I see and when

It's literally all I've had to look forward to all year - 2 weeks away in a flippin English village on the coast. I will lose my mind if that gets taken away from me at this point

 

Come on I know your being sarcastic there ???‍♂️

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Miggins said:

You say that 'We are very robust creatures who build our immunity through catching stuff...' 

If I catch Covid I will probably be ok, despite being middle-aged. If I contract the virus and pass it on (unknowingly) to my elderly mum she might die. I know that there is a limited chance of this happening as we have all been vaccinated, but the chance is still there and I will do anything to protect her.

My father in law has just come out of hospital after having a second operation for lung cancer in 4 years. Again, we will take all possible precautions to keep him safe. This includes wearing a face mask whenever in close contact with others, especially in the supermarket. It won't stop us from going on long walks in the countryside, distancing in restaurants etc. But it means that we will be extra careful whilst not fully isolating. We have to get on with our lives but we have to be ultra careful when we are with vulnerable members of our families. The immune system is a wonderful piece of kit as you say, but it is very fragile inthe elderly and those suffering from cancer. My mum and my father in law are far from being robust creatures.

You are the exact position I really despise the scientist , government and especially the gov employed behavioural scientists for and I mean despise ,,, they have made you really fear killing the ones you love ,,, 

look at the figures properly,, people are not lucky to survive covid , they are extremely extremely extremely unlucky if they get really ill or die from catching it ,,, the tactics used on decent people has been and still is a disgrace and I mean decent because it’s decency they are manipulating,,,,,,, fear trumps facts and thought??‍♂️

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, Archied said:

look at the figures properly,, people are not lucky to survive covid , they are extremely extremely extremely unlucky if they get really ill or die from catching it ,,, the tactics used on decent people has been and still is a disgrace and I mean decent because it’s decency they are manipulating,,,,,,, fear trumps facts and thought??‍♂️

Why do the elderly and vunerable get offered flu jabs every year then? What have they to fear? Look at the figures for the stats on the majority of those who died from covid - it's not the young! And covid isn't flu it's worse!

Edited July 10, 2021 by RoyMac5

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, Archied said:

You are the exact position I really despise the scientist , government and especially the gov employed behavioural scientists for and I mean despise ,,, they have made you really fear killing the ones you love ,,, 

look at the figures properly,, people are not lucky to survive covid , they are extremely extremely extremely unlucky if they get really ill or die from catching it ,,, the tactics used on decent people has been and still is a disgrace and I mean decent because it’s decency they are manipulating,,,,,,, fear trumps facts and thought??‍♂️

I wonder if these people ask themselves the question 'have I ever worn a mask before when visiting my parents, knowing that I could unwittingly pass them then cold or flu virus, that could potentially kill them'

And before anyone says, I know Covid is worse than a cold or the flu, but if people are so vulnerable that Covid could kill them I'm sure the same could almost certainly apply to flu.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

I wonder if these people ask themselves the question 'have I ever worn a mask before when visiting my parents, knowing that I could unwittingly pass them then cold or flu virus, that could potentially kill them'

And before anyone says, I know Covid is worse than a cold or the flu, but if people are so vulnerable that Covid could kill them I'm sure the same could almost certainly apply to flu.

And so maybe NOW they will wear a mask in flu season.

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why do the elderly and vunerable get offered flu jabs every year then? What have they to fear? Look at the figures for the stats on the majority of those who died from covid - it's not the young! And covid isn't flu it's worse!

People are offered the flu vaccine every year because a lot of people die from flu.  The flu vaccine however uses established technology and uses dead virus.  The benefits of vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable far outweigh the risks of catching flu.

The covid vaccines however use mrna technology which have not been through the full approvals process for use in humans - we simply don't know what long term risks they may or may not have.  As with the flu jab, the benefits of giving the covid jab to the elderly and vulnerable far outweigh the risks of them contracting the virus - especially as they make up 99% of all covid deaths. 

Why we are continuing to vaccinate younger and younger people is concerning to me - I understand they may help prevent varients but surely thats what booster jabs are for?  As the total number of all adult vaccinated in the UK now approaches 90% we're now trusting that this vaccine doesn't come back to haunt us in the future...

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-race-for-a-covid-19-vaccine-explained

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

The covid vaccines however use mrna technology

Wrong.

"Viral vector-based vaccines, such as those developed by AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, use a harmless virus, or adenovirus, as a delivery system to trigger the immune system to create antibodies to fight off an infection by SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19."

[jimmyp]

35 minutes ago, Archied said:

You are the exact position I really despise the scientist , government and especially the gov employed behavioural scientists for and I mean despise ,,, they have made you really fear killing the ones you love ,,, 

look at the figures properly,, people are not lucky to survive covid , they are extremely extremely extremely unlucky if they get really ill or die from catching it ,,, the tactics used on decent people has been and still is a disgrace and I mean decent because it’s decency they are manipulating,,,,,,, fear trumps facts and thought??‍♂️

Having a father in law who is currently recovering from his second lung cancer operation is the exact time you should fear covid and take all possible precautions to prevent passing on an infection to him. 

Let’s be honest Archied if you had lung cancer then you really don’t want to be getting Covid. 
 

I would be distraught if I passed on an infection to a clinically vulnerable person because I didn’t take simple precautions.
 

 

 

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Wrong.

"Viral vector-based vaccines, such as those developed by AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, use a harmless virus, or adenovirus, as a delivery system to trigger the immune system to create antibodies to fight off an infection by SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19."

Cool.  Lucky they don't give that one to the under 40s then ? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57021738

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Edited July 10, 2021 by maxjam
added another link

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Cool.  Lucky they don't give that one to the under 40s then ? 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

Think its a virus from chimps or some such, can't remember now - see what it does to your memory! ? Mad really, yous lot get the one's that have been linked to heart problems... none are gonna be 100% safe. As we know from reading the info in a packet of ibuprofen!!!

Edited July 10, 2021 by RoyMac5

[jimmyp]

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I wonder if these people ask themselves the question 'have I ever worn a mask before when visiting my parents, knowing that I could unwittingly pass them then cold or flu virus, that could potentially kill them'

And before anyone says, I know Covid is worse than a cold or the flu, but if people are so vulnerable that Covid could kill them I'm sure the same could almost certainly apply to flu.

Would you go and visit an elderly relative if you had a bad cold or the flu?

Ever since I was young I knew it was common sense not to be near the vulnerable whilst infectious. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by jimmyp

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, jimmyp said:

Would you go and visit an elderly relative if you had a bad cold or the flu?

Ever since I was young I knew it was common sense not to be near the vulnerable whilst infectious. 

No but by time you know you have these things haven't you already been in the infectious stage?

[jimmyp]

20 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No but by time you know you have these things haven't you already been in the infectious stage?

Taken from the cdc.

“Flu

Most people with flu are contagious for about 1 day before they show symptoms.

Older children and adults with flu appear to be most contagious during the initial 3-4 days of their illness but many people remain contagious for about 7 days.

Infants and people with weakened immune systems can be contagious for even longer.

COVID-19

How long someone can spread the virus that causes COVID-19 is still under investigation.

It’s possible for people to spread the virus for about 2 days before experiencing signs or symptoms (or possibly earlier) and remain contagious for at least 10 days after signs or symptoms first appeared. If someone is asymptomatic or their symptoms go away, it’s possible to remain contagious for at least 10 days after testing positive for COVID-19. People who are hospitalized with severe disease and people with weakened immune systems can be contagious for 20 days or longer.”

 

The problem for so many with covid is that they unknowingly spread it because they aren’t aware they even have it. 
Your chances of doing that with the flu  etc are far far less. 
 

Around the vulnerable, then take extra precautions, simples.