Tyler Durden Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Find it a bit hypocritical that you can attest a person is up to the job after 8 games but then a lot of posters (maybe the same) were refusing to make a judgement on Cocu after a season and a quarter in charge and saying he needed more time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Find it a bit hypocritical that you can attest a person is up to the job after 8 games but then a lot of posters (maybe the same) were refusing to make a judgement on Cocu after a season and a quarter in charge and saying he needed more time..... It’s not that hypocritical at all, one was the manager, the other is interim and interested in the job. You’re not going to have a manager effectively on trial for a season and half before seeing enough to appoint him. We’re lucky in that we have seen how he operates so know what we’re getting as oppose to appointing an experienced manager like Nigel Pearson for example and watching the players down tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, David said: It’s not that hypocritical at all, one was the manager, the other is interim and interested in the job. You’re not going to have a manager effectively on trial for a season and half before seeing enough to appoint him. We’re lucky in that we have seen how he operates so know what we’re getting as oppose to appointing an experienced manager like Nigel Pearson for example and watching the players down tools. We'll agree to disagree then there are different yardsticks being used for the 2 scenarios that's pretty obvious and not debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said: The key ingredient & departure with Cocu was CKR. Guess we'll never truly know how close to fitness Kazim was in Sep/Oct but that lack of forward focal point meant that everything else we did on the pitch (and there were some good displays) ultimately meant little as we had no platform up top to convert good play into goals. That in turn put considerable pressure on the defence..one mistake & we'd inevitably lose. Huddersfield away stood out for me with Cocu. He had 3 forwards including CKR all on the bench, instead preferring a 'false 9'. The opposition were very limited, we had plenty of the play but it was all in front of them & we didnt land a punch at all. A lot was made of shocking delivery that night but there really wasnt much to aim at. Rooney by contrast correctly identified CKR's potential importance & got him on the pitch immediately...deserves a lot of credit for that. Do take your point about the changes elsewhere. Playing Evans as a DM was not a good call nor was Holmes as RW. Not unreasonable as a newbie to try combinations out though & he seems to have found a very decent XI. Bielik's emergence & not having to shoehorn himself in has massively helped this process also. Don’t disagree with most of that. (Still don’t get the anti-Evans thing?) agree that CKR (and Bielik) have transformed us but Cocu seemed to be under some obligation to play Rooney. Actually taking Rooney out of the side has also helped massively. however it has come about we suddenly look like a team with all parts meshing together nicely. The mood is transformed. Long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Have to give him the job now. I didn’t think he would be the right choice but he’s done everything asked of him. He has had some luck with key players returning from injury but he has found a way to get an undoubtedly talented squad firing. If Rotherham sacked Paul Warne and appointed Rooney he wouldn’t have anywhere near the same impact. He must have thought the stars had aligned to get an opportunity to manage a big club in a false position with lots of scope to improve. As for Cocu, I was one of those who said to give him time and it was in absolutely no way hypocritical to do so. He was a permanent manager for a start. If Rooney gets the job and we have a bad run but stay up I won’t be calling for his head. Cocu had everything thrown at him, dealt with it all brought through academy players (his main remit) and we finished a very creditable 10th off the back of a second half of the season with top 6 form. With the short turn around, having to sell to buy and key players not being fit, it was only right to give him time this season and only giving him 11 games wasn’t much time. There had been some very positive signs against Forest Cardiff and Bournemouth we could turn it around, we also turned around a bottom 6 position under Cocu last season. However the QPR defeat where he changed the team completely showed it was no longer going to work and the players needed to hear a different message. He probably had 1 or 2 games too many, nothing more. The club made the change in plenty of time to pull us out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 It’s easy to say yes after such a fine result and, that’s how I would vote. Will you be running a new poll IF we suffer a bad result and performance on Friday, Rooney picks a team we don’t like and he either fails to make substitutions early enough or makes substitutions we disapprove of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, RamNut said: Don’t disagree with most of that. (Still don’t get the anti-Evans thing?) agree that CKR (and Bielik) have transformed us but Cocu seemed to be under some obligation to play Rooney. Actually taking Rooney out of the side has also helped massively. however it has come about we suddenly look like a team with all parts meshing together nicely. The mood is transformed. Long may it continue. Guess we won't find out what the obligation was for Cocu to play Rooney until Rooney is long gone. Strongly suspect it was contractual but am intrigued as it would put Cocu's reign & departure (and Rooney's start) into more context. Like you say though, it does look to be meshing together now. Look forward to seeing how it plays out. Re Evans, I think he's a CB & got real potential there. Like him overall but dont rate him as a DM at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: It’s easy to say yes after such a fine result and, that’s how I would vote. Will you be running a new poll IF we suffer a bad result and performance on Friday, Rooney picks a team we don’t like and he either fails to make substitutions early enough or makes substitutions we disapprove of? Are you trying to suggest we’re fickle? I am positive that a defeat last night would have seen the opposite result, with only us hardcore Rooney fans voting yes. You could say it was naughty of me, but then when is the fairest time? The previous topic many fans were saying they had changed their minds, so thought it would be interesting to see what the swing looked like now. We can all be stubborn with our opinions, so to see a huge shift in such a short space of time is full credit to Rooney, thought it would take him longer but as you say, this could be just riding on the back of a 4-0 win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Need a few more games before deciding. Think voting today is based on the result last night so holding back for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, David said: Are you trying to suggest we’re fickle? I am positive that a defeat last night would have seen the opposite result, with only us hardcore Rooney fans voting yes. You could say it was naughty of me, but then when is the fairest time? The previous topic many fans were saying they had changed their minds, so thought it would be interesting to see what the swing looked like now. We can all be stubborn with our opinions, so to see a huge shift in such a short space of time is full credit to Rooney, thought it would take him longer but as you say, this could be just riding on the back of a 4-0 win. Fickle? Us? Surely not. It was a bit naughty. A fairer time is obviously not immediately after a game especially an emphatic win or defeat when emotions, high or low, are at their peak. You should have run the poll before kick off. I would still have voted yes but there might also have been a few more no’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, David said: Are you trying to suggest we’re fickle? I am positive that a defeat last night would have seen the opposite result, with only us hardcore Rooney fans voting yes. You could say it was naughty of me, but then when is the fairest time? The previous topic many fans were saying they had changed their minds, so thought it would be interesting to see what the swing looked like now. We can all be stubborn with our opinions, so to see a huge shift in such a short space of time is full credit to Rooney, thought it would take him longer but as you say, this could be just riding on the back of a 4-0 win. Thatcher won the 1983 general election on the coat tails of defeating the Argentinians in the Falklands War after being previously highly unpopular during her first 2 years in office. Am cynically amazed that you are surprised therefore that the timing of a poll against a notable event would have a significant bearing on the polls outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, David said: Are you trying to suggest we’re fickle? I am positive that a defeat last night would have seen the opposite result, with only us hardcore Rooney fans voting yes. You could say it was naughty of me, but then when is the fairest time? The previous topic many fans were saying they had changed their minds, so thought it would be interesting to see what the swing looked like now. We can all be stubborn with our opinions, so to see a huge shift in such a short space of time is full credit to Rooney, thought it would take him longer but as you say, this could be just riding on the back of a 4-0 win. Football fans fickle....never don't beleive it ? Thats one hell of a shift though, I remember voting on the last poll and being only one of 2 to put yes at the time, can't remember the no's but it was much much higher. I have been watching football for so long now that time has taught me you don't need to like the player or manager at your club, so often people's perception of a manager is clouded by their view on their personality rather than being able to carry the job out. Looking at some of the anti Rooney posts out there, I don't believe he will ever be supported by all and some are waiting for him to fail...which is bizarre really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Thatcher won the 1983 general election on the coat tails of defeating the Argentinians in the Falklands War after being previously highly unpopular during her first 2 years in office. Am cynically amazed that you are surprised therefore that the timing of a poll against a notable event would have a significant bearing on the polls outcome. I was going to wait until we played Argentina, but thought that might take a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roboto Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Why would Rooney only take the job until the end of the season (as some posters keep suggesting we should offer him)? Surely it’s in no ones interest. It doesn’t show much faith from us in Rooney and in turn would he continue to progress as a manager with us if he doesn’t see some long term stability from us? I see us giving him a decent length contract with a hefty buy-out clause like we did with Frank in case the United job opens up and he’s been continuing to improve as a manager. I can’t see anyone else getting the job now after our recent upturn in form and results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, David said: I was going to wait until we played Argentina, but thought that might take a while Original point still stands. You knew that running the poll after our largest league away victory in over 6 years would have a significant impact on the results of the same said poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BIllyD said: I have been watching football for so long now that time has taught me you don't need to like the player or manager at your club, so often people's perception of a manager is clouded by their view on their personality rather than being able to carry the job out. Looking at some of the anti Rooney posts out there, I don't believe he will ever be supported by all and some are waiting for him to fail...which is bizarre really. This is so true, and I must admit I’m guilty of it myself. The funny thing is, we go by the personality that’s portrayed in the media. For example I don’t think I’ll ever warm to Jack Grealish. Don’t know the guy at all, probably have a great time over a few beers but I’ve decided I don’t like him and that’s that. As for Rooney, his off the field activities have been questionable, and they have been brought into the appointment conversation which isn’t fair either. We’ve all made mistakes, more so when we were younger and I’ve always maintained I would have made many many more had I been on a footballers wage. Jack Grealish though, ugh. Wouldn’t even take him to the Euro’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, Tyler Durden said: Original point still stands. You knew that running the poll after our largest away victory in over 6 years would have a significant impact on the results of the same said poll. Would it be any fairer had I waited for the largest home defeat for 6 years? As I said, many were already admitting they had a change of heart and asking for a new poll. The timing was, well are we in then or not? Having been open to the idea of Rooney early on, being very much in the minority, 10 bottles down and a 4-0 win I wanted to enjoy a brief moment of optimism and enthusiasm in what has been a throughly depressing forum for months now, I won’t apologise for that. It didn’t surprise me to see a swing, but not a swing by this much despite a 4-0 win. As I also said, football fans can be stubborn as well as fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, David said: This is so true, and I must admit I’m guilty of it myself. The funny thing is, we go by the personality that’s portrayed in the media. For example I don’t think I’ll ever warm to Jack Grealish. Don’t know the guy at all, probably have a great time over a few beers but I’ve decided I don’t like him and that’s that. As for Rooney, his off the field activities have been questionable, and they have been brought into the appointment conversation which isn’t fair either. We’ve all made mistakes, more so when we were younger and I’ve always maintained I would have made many many more had I been on a footballers wage. Jack Grealish though, ugh. Wouldn’t even take him to the Euro’s. Class player, I love the arrogance of these types of players, CR being another, football needs them, would be so boring if players were all the same. I remember him being linked to Derby a few years ago, Grealish not CR that is, I can only imagine how many fans judged him on his personality rather than his footballing abilities and said they wouldn't have him at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, David said: Would it be any fairer had I waited for the largest home defeat for 6 years? As I said, many were already admitting they had a change of heart and asking for a new poll. The timing was, well are we in then or not? Having been open to the idea of Rooney early on, being very much in the minority, 10 bottles down and a 4-0 win I wanted to enjoy a brief moment of optimism and enthusiasm in what has been a throughly depressing forum for months now, I won’t apologise for that. It didn’t surprise me to see a swing, but not a swing by this much despite a 4-0 win. As I also said, football fans can be stubborn as well as fickle. Not at all, I would like to see a sense of balance and consistency in all things just like my original comment about 8 games being good enough to judge one person but 50 odd games or whatever isn't enough to judge another. Guess I ask too much as this is a football forum after all not the Oxford Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, David said: Jack Grealish though, ugh. Wouldn’t even take him to the Euro’s. You might like him if he played for us. I agree he is a prat of the highest order but he is also hugely talented. In football the two things often seem to go together. Charlie george was once considered to be major plonker but what a player! I’m reading Alan Hudson’s biography at the moment and that’s a real eye opener. He falls into the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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