Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Curtains said: Of course he will be under pressure after losing 4 out of 5 games but last night wasn’t the worst performance as I personally saw some improvement and hopefully that will continue when players get fit . You can’t please everyone all the time with style and creative intent but I trust in Cocu but I know others don’t Whatever though it’s a results based business but with Rowett and Billy Davies that wasn’t enough either I totally agree it wasn't the worst absolutely. We also got beat unfortunately though leaving us languishing at the foot of the table still. It's not down to me or you whether he gets the time. The results will dictate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: The dour brand of football was only semi tolerated with Davies and Growett as they both got us into the Top 6. Cocu needs to start doing something very differently very quickly before he runs out of time like it or not that's the reality. Everything else is just ifs and buts. We've tried to change to a more Davies/Rowett style in the past 2 games, one of which we won. "The reality is" that people haven't even given him 3 games to implement this change before screaming bloody murder about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Coconut said: We've tried to change to a more Davies/Rowett style in the past 2 games, one of which we won. The reality is that people haven't even given him 3 games to implement this change without screaming bloody murder about it. It's not 3 games though as I keep stating as other posters do so too but gets consistently ignored which is why you may perceive it's having to be screamed out. The poor results have carried on from the final quarter of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coconut said: "The reality is" that people haven't even given him 3 games to implement this change before screaming bloody murder about it! Probably because what it has followed on from was pretty dull and ineffectual as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: We'll see. As I've stated in another parallel post ( there's a whole raft of duplicates sprung up as you are aware lol) it's down to Morris ultimately what he thinks Cocu should or shouldn't be doing with the resources he has available in terms of results and playing style. We can debate it until the cows come home but Morris will have his own expectations that may not fit in with the consensus on here. We'll see. Agreed. It will be down to Mel. It was probably down to Mel that we didn't offer Martin a longer, more lucrative contact. It's also highly likely that it was Mel that set limits on the cost of bringing in a higher profile replacement than Kazim-Richards. Maybe even loaning Marriott. But Cocu gets the blame. What worries me is when the fans start asking the questions being asked on here and elsewhere, football owners generally (not Mel) deflect attention off themselves by changing the manager. I also worry about that Sun article. I know the media would love Rooney as manager (I wouldn't) but, gut feeling, I think there's something going on there. We'll see but it's very distressing. I genuinely believe, given time, Cocu would have us playing successful, fun to watch football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Personally, ideally I want to see possession based, high energy, attacking football. The sort that Liverpool and Man City play, that’s the way the beautiful game is meant to be played imo. Not asking a lot am I?? So far, Cocu has delivered on the possession based part of that in the vast majority of games. The other two, not so much. However, one thing that I think hasn’t been talked about enough from yesterday’s game is the fact we actually pressed for once. Previously we’ve almost always sat back and allowed the opposition to play out the back, but yesterday we played with a bit more energy up front and put Watford’s defence under more pressure. With the lack of pace in our frontline, it probably wasn’t as successful as it would ideally be, but it still had a positive impact. We forced errors out of the likes of Cleverley, which we should have capitalised on. That level of aggression is a big improvement, and maybe shows Cocu beginning to understand this division more. Maybe the switch to a higher press was something to come out of that team meeting before the international break? It’s good to see Cocu listening if so. Sometimes I just wish Cocu would throw caution to the wind a bit more and free up our attackers to do what they do best. We seem very restricted at times. But ultimately, I guess I don’t really care how we play football, so long as we get results. It’s the results that are really worrying me at the moment, and if we have to go full Rowett to get some wins, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: It's not 3 games though as I keep stating as other posters do so too but gets consistently ignored which is why you may perceive it's having to be screamed out. The poor results have carried on from the final quarter of last season. Christ on a bike I didnt say opinions are built on 3 games, so don't try to use that absolute poo against me. The post was about the 'change' to a Rowett/Davies style of trying to be defensively resolute not being allowed time to come to any sort of fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coconut said: Christ on a bike I didnt say opinions are built on 3 games, so don't try to use that absolute poo against me. The post was about the 'change' to a Rowett/Davies style of trying to be defensively resolute not being allowed time to come to any sort of fruition. Calm down a bit you've used ducking then poo in your previous responses I'm not getting carried away so why are you. If you're getting frustrated that others aren't seeing your point of view maybe it's because you're not conveying your opinion convincingly enough. But don't take your exasperation out on other posters if you're not able to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Calm down a bit you've used ducking then poo in your previous responses I'm not getting carried away so why are you. If you're getting frustrated that others aren't seeing your point of view maybe it's because you're not conveying your opinion convincingly enough. But don't take your exasperation out on other posters if you're not able to do this. Condescending & imperious as ever. You never actually seem to express a full and real opinion on anything, so I guess it would be very hard for you to get carried away. I'm not getting frustrated about people not seeing my point of view, but I am getting frustrated at your constant picking at my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Curtains said: I believe Cocu is trying to create a something at Derby but he may not get the time due to impatience But sometimes what the manager is trying to work just simply doesn't work. Sometimes it just doesn't work out with certain managers at certain clubs and I feel we're almost at that stage with cocu. I'm all for building something long term with the academy players but at some point you have to stop and realise it's an absolute shambles. He has to do better with this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: But sometimes what the manager is trying to work just simply doesn't work. Sometimes it just doesn't work out with certain managers at certain clubs and I feel we're almost at that stage with cocu. I'm all for building something long term with the academy players but at some point you have to stop and realise it's an absolute shambles. He has to do better with this group. Do you think Frank would be doing much better with the players currently available ? I am not convinced ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Lots called for Rowetts head with his direct football didn’t they. Derby fans are really impatient and then the chairman feels like he has to react . I know, and I don’t necessarily have a problem with that (despite the fact that I strongly, strongly disagree with them). My point was that people are moaning about the style of play from the last two games as though it’s the only style Cocu has implemented since he’s been here, and that’s patently untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: He may not get the time as it's really unclear to the casual observer what exactly he is trying to create He wanted to implement his style last year but said the players weren’t fit enough. This year we’re seeing what he wants defensively with the higher press and closing down quickly. Attacking is different. We haven’t quite seen what he wants. We’ve seen brief spells of what we can do but then we turn back. We have no player to take that risk to potentially get us a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Do you think Frank would be doing much better with the players currently available ? I am not convinced ? He might have got better loans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: He might have got better loans! Better than what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said: Better than what? Dowell? No-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said: Do you think Frank would be doing much better with the players currently available Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Rammy03 said: Yes Really ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Jimbo Ram said: Really ? The problems I am seeing are systemic. We lack a collective attacking mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: The problems I am seeing are systemic. We lack a collective attacking mentality. A lot of that was down to Mount and Wilson when Frank was here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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