Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 We can talk direct football or build up play .. Its not an exact science. I believe Cocu is trying to create a something at Derby but he may not get the time due to impatience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 The Liverpool way is high press but you need great players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 He may not get the time as it's really unclear to the casual observer what exactly he is trying to create Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 It's not impatience,to develop a strategy you have prove you can get results with it and show real improvement over time. Cody hasn't managed to demonstrate either yet unfortunately with any consistency at all. We can carry on making excuses for him and some are quite reasonable but he has to deliver results or he will have to go. Hopefully he will but the pressures on and not without good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: He may not get the time as it's really unclear to the casual observer what exactly he is trying to create He’s trying to be solid at the back and build from the back to front. . Problem at the moment is the outlets up front aren’t available. The midfield will be stronger and more creative with Beilik back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcidaho Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I'm all for a long term vision, but in a tactical sense you have to make use of what you've got. We just shipped our only fit striker out to a relegation rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 What I’m confused about is everyone calling for his head because of the negative style of play. We’ve literally been playing a new, defensive-first style for two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: It's not impatience,to develop a strategy you have prove you can get results with it and show real improvement over time. Cody hasn't managed to demonstrate either yet unfortunately with any consistency at all. We can carry on making excuses for him and some are quite reasonable but he has to deliver results or he will have to go. Hopefully he will but the pressures on and not without good reason. Of course no one wants to lose but Norwich and Watford and we only concede 1 goal is creditable particularly with the non availability of players and we did get 3 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: He’s trying to be solid at the back and build from the back to front. . Problem at the moment is the outlets up front aren’t available. The midfield will be stronger and more creative with Beilik back Surely you have to cut your cloth to fit. If you don't have the personnel to be able to follow through your strategy either because of their footballing abilities or injuries then why carry on ploughing the same barren field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said: What I’m confused about is everyone calling for his head because of the negative style of play. We’ve literally been playing a new, defensive-first style for two games. Lots called for Rowetts head with his direct football didn’t they. Derby fans are really impatient and then the chairman feels like he has to react . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: Surely you have to cut your cloth to fit. If you don't have the personnel to be able to follow through your strategy either because of their footballing abilities or injuries then why carry on ploughing the same barren field. But Billy Davies type football was criticized as was Gary Rowett Mac1 seemed to do well with Nigels team after he got booted out but then the Newcastle situation arrived. Paul Clement was brought in also as was Pearson and fans didn’t like them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Surely you have to cut your cloth to fit. If you don't have the personnel to be able to follow through your strategy either because of their footballing abilities or injuries then why carry on ploughing the same barren field. Because it’s not easy to be a football manager when you have to take into consideration the present cost cutting climate. We need to stabilize and go from there We played some neat stuff last night . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Curtains said: The Liverpool way is high press but you need great players. We pressed high first half but aren't fit enough to do it for 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: But Billy Davies type football was criticized as was Gary Rowett Mac1 seemed to do well with Nigels team after he got booted out but then the Newcastle situation arrived. Paul Clement was brought in also as was Pearson and fans didn’t like them either. Yes but the vital point you're overlooking is that Cocu is managing to serve up the twin sins of unattractive football and poor results. With Davies and Rowett the dour football was tolerated as one got us promoted another got us into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, sage said: We pressed high first half but aren't fit enough to do it for 90 minutes. Yes we did I agree. Rooney pressing is difficult for 90 but he did his best. Waghorn does it well and I can’t comment on Kazmin Richards but maybe that why we have signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Yes but the vital point you're overlooking is that Cocu is managing to serve up the twin sins of unattractive football and poor results. With Davies and Rowett the dour football was tolerated as one got us promoted another got us into the playoffs. Unattractive is a perception to be honest . I think it will get better and just the introduction of Lawrence made a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Curtains said: Unattractive is a perception to be honest . I think it will get better and just the introduction of Lawrence made a difference You've ignored my point to a degree. People can only comment on what they see infront of them. No good saying things will or might get better the reality is we're being given poor results and a poor brand of football. Supporters won't tolerate this toxic mix as you've chosen to ignore. The dour brand of football was only semi tolerated with Davies and Growett as they both got us into the Top 6. Cocu needs to start doing something very differently very quickly before he runs out of time like it or not that's the reality. Everything else is just ifs and buts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Tyler Durden said: You've ignored my point to a degree. People can only comment on what they see infront of them. No good saying things will or might get better the reality is we're being given poor results and a poor brand of football. Supporters won't tolerate this toxic mix as you've chosen to ignore. The dour brand of football was only semi tolerated with Davies and Growett as they both got us into the Top 6. Cocu needs to start doing something very differently very quickly before he runs out of time like it or not that's the reality. Everything else is just ifs and buts. Of course he will be under pressure after losing 4 out of 5 games but last night wasn’t the worst performance as I personally saw some improvement and hopefully that will continue when players get fit . You can’t please everyone all the time with style and creative intent but I trust in Cocu but I know others don’t Whatever though it’s a results based business but with Rowett and Billy Davies that wasn’t enough either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Surely you have to cut your cloth to fit. If you don't have the personnel to be able to follow through your strategy either because of their footballing abilities or injuries then why carry on ploughing the same barren field. So, that's ignoring the switch from 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-3 then? It's also difficult when so many forwards are out injured. There was a noticeable change when a barely fit Lawrence came on. Whittaker and Hector-Ingram are too inexperienced to carry the attack at the moment. I get the complaints about Martin and Marriott leaving - really I'm as disappointed as anyone. But it's clear the club could not afford to give Martin the contract he was able to secure at a cash rich Bristol - so he chose to leave. Marriott is a little more puzzling but, clearly, there's an issue there - that predated Cocu. Whether that's injury, attitude, ability, system or a combination. But anyway, please can those with less faith in Cocu than me, please stop peddling the clichés about inflexibility, defensive, slow possession etc. It's just not the case - watch the games. The truth is the performances and results are impacted because the experienced and effective forward players are out injured. We're also playing a lot of youngsters, who by their nature are inconsistent. Rooney's legs have gone. Davies - great defender - cannot pass. Clarke and Holmes are not playing aswell as last year. Sorry, but when a team has injuries and a club has no money, it will take time to build a team based mostly on academy players. I have more confidence than @Curtains that Mel knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, IslandExile said: So, that's ignoring the switch from 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-3 then? It's also difficult when so many forwards are out injured. There was a noticeable change when a barely fit Lawrence came on. Whittaker and Hector-Ingram are to inexperienced to carry the attack at the moment. I get the complaints about Martin and Marriott leaving - really I'm as disappointed as anyone. But it's clear the club could not afford to give Martin the contract he was able to secure at a cash rich Bristol - so he chose to leave. Marriott is a little more puzzling but, clearly, there's an issue there - that predated Cocu. Whether that's injury, attitude, ability, system or a combination. But anyway, please can those with less faith in Cocu than me, please stop peddling the clichés about inflexibility, defensive, slow possession etc. It's just not the case - watch the games. The truth is it experienced and effective forward players are out injured. We're also playing a lot of youngsters, who by their nature are inconsistent. Rooney's legs have gone. Davies - great defender - cannot pass. Clarke and Holmes are not playing aswell as last year. Sorry, but when a team has injuries and a club has no money, it will take time to build a team based mostly on academy players. I have more confidence than @Curtains that Mel knows that. We'll see. As I've stated in another parallel post ( there's a whole raft of duplicates sprung up as you are aware lol) it's down to Morris ultimately what he thinks Cocu should or shouldn't be doing with the resources he has available in terms of results and playing style. We can debate it until the cows come home but Morris will have his own expectations that may not fit in with the consensus on here. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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