Coronavirus

[Albert]

6 minutes ago, Archied said:

So your accusations were false , thanks if that’s the best you can manage, but I could respect your opinion s if you had the capacity to just say just say when your wrong , it happens to us all you know

...what accusation? 

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Good number of people die within 28 days of having they’re dinner

As noted, we determine from mortality statistics that the number of people who would be expected to have died within 28 days of a positive test from all cause mortality in the UK would have been about ~2500. Over 110,000 have died. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So going back to that, are saying that the government have discussed new up to date figures with the union or no they haven't 

The discussions are obviously ongoing as the sector looks to re-open.

The extract quoted from Coinslot, was from this week, not sure when the comments were made.

Nowhere have I or anyone claimed that there are no cases linked to the leisure/hospitality sector, you are literally arguing a point that you have just invented yourself.

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We had a poster on here just yesterday or the day before saying his friend was dying from pancreatic cancer (I think) caught Covid and the death was therefore recorded as Covid.

Is that not evidence that in some cases numbers are being overstated?

It's called an anecdote. It can, if verified, act as a single data point is a discussion, but we're not discussing 1 deaths, or a dozen, we're discussing over 110,000 at this point. 

As noted, the 28 days figure will likely contain some people who died of other causes. As noted, for the number of people who have been diagnosed with Covid-19, you'd expect from standard mortality figures in the UK that around ~2,500 of those people would die within that 28 day window. This person from the anecdote would fall within that category. 

Now, the issue is that the blade cuts both ways on that one though, as people do die from Covid-19 after 28 days, and the 28 days figures will miss people who died by never were tested, though this is hopefully less of a concern in the UK compared to some other countries.

Ultimately though, as noted, the numbers we're talking are of such a scale that diddling around the edges isn't changing the horrific reality of the situation. More than 110,000 people have died, and there does not exist of clear way of playing the denialism game anymore. 

[BIllyD]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We had a poster on here just yesterday or the day before saying his friend was dying from pancreatic cancer (I think) caught Covid and the death was therefore recorded as Covid.

Is that not evidence that in some cases numbers are being overstated?

Wow, so because someone is nearing the end of their life, we didn't know how long he had left, not that it matters, is being used as evidence of over inflating of numbers.

Unfortunately this individual died as the result of COVID, I have a low immunity as the result of having cancer, if I got COVID and passed away, I suppose the root cause is also the cancer and it would be over egging it to put down COVID. Don't worry was going to die at some point anyway. 

My uncle passed away last week, had COVID whilst in hospital, however died of heart failure, went down as what it was, it's what is the cause of death that is recorded.

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

We had a poster on here just yesterday or the day before saying his friend was dying from pancreatic cancer (I think) caught Covid and the death was therefore recorded as Covid.

Is that not evidence that in some cases numbers are being overstated?

Well not really  - if someone has terminal cancer and they get hit by a car, or someone murders them, do we say that they actually died of cancer and the road fatalities/murder statistics are being overstated? Don't think so

Because let's face it - we're all dying from the day we're born so the "they were going to die anyway so it shouldn't be counted as a Covid death" argument is really weak

 

 

[BIllyD]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The discussions are obviously ongoing as the sector looks to re-open.

The extract quoted from Coinslot, was from this week, not sure when the comments were made.

Nowhere have I or anyone claimed that there are no cases linked to the leisure/hospitality sector, you are literally arguing a point that you have just invented yourself.

Fair enough, we are agreed that there is a correlation between where people caught it and the leisure industry ?

[FindernRam]

16 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

I could be completely wrong here, but I took @G STAR RAM's "lost for words" comment to be a jape in response to your "doggie types" comment, and the potential confusion with "dogging types"!

At least, that's why I gave it a laughing face reaction... rightly or wrongly.  ?‍♂️

 

I'm a bit stressed at moment so suffering a bit of sense of humour failure. Anyway thanks for the reaction from you and @G STAR RAM

PS Not sure dogging has reached Findern!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Wow, so because someone is nearing the end of their life, we didn't know how long he had left, not that it matters, is being used as evidence of over inflating of numbers.

Unfortunately this individual died as the result of COVID, I have a low immunity as the result of having cancer, if I got COVID and passed away, I suppose the root cause is also the cancer and it would be over egging it to put down COVID. Don't worry was going to die at some point anyway. 

My uncle passed away last week, had COVID whilst in hospital, however died of heart failure, went down as what it was, it's what is the cause of death that is recorded.

Not agreed, the cases recorded on ONS are where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate. 

[Bob The Badger]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Oh get a grip it’s a football forum not PMs questions time. And it’s completely plausible, you don’t think every Covid death case counted was actually due to Covid do you? Really? A positive test in the last 28 days is the measure and if you have been tested positive no matter how you pass away thats going on your death certificate and counted in the statistics , even if your asymptotic when Ill with something else. 

So why wouldn’t we just pass a illness of as Covid after a positive test, you think flu has really disappeared this winter? Wow that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and starts spreading false information. Amazing, wow I’m shocked.

 

Get a grip?

Do you know how QAnon started?

A comment with a message board post that most people think was made initially as a joke.

You invented something, then when challenged you had to back down.

But to retain credibility you had to cling on to it it being plausible to your way of thinking.

Because without that, you just ridiculous for making stuff up.

And you want me to get a grip?

Seems reasonable.

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Fair enough, we are agreed that there is a correlation between where people caught it and the leisure industry ?

Yep and lots of other correlations as well.

99.9% of people that have suffered from Covid live in houses, as opposed to just 0.1% who were homeless. 

I assume that you agree that it would be better if we all started sleeping rough.

PS - I don't have any minutes or zoom calls recorded to back this up and I actually just made it up (just so you know which section to file this under)

[Gone]

56 minutes ago, Albert said:

You say this, but it seems to be based on absolutely nothing. As noted, studies of time to death for Covid-19 note that a not insignificant fraction of people die after 28 days. Equally, in the 'control' scenario for deaths within 28 days, ie just picking that many people at random from the population, you'd expect ~2,500 of those people to die within 28 days of their test based on standard mortality statistics in the UK. 

You say just wave your arms about declaring 'I think it's overstated', but it's tinfoil time in doing so. There is simply no evidence based reason to claim such

I have personal Evidence that I won’t share on here and maybe why I’m so vocal about it, so how dare you say it’s tinfoil time. 

 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Albert said:

It's called an anecdote. It can, if verified, act as a single data point is a discussion, but we're not discussing 1 deaths, or a dozen, we're discussing over 110,000 at this point. 

As noted, the 28 days figure will likely contain some people who died of other causes. As noted, for the number of people who have been diagnosed with Covid-19, you'd expect from standard mortality figures in the UK that around ~2,500 of those people would die within that 28 day window. This person from the anecdote would fall within that category. 

Now, the issue is that the blade cuts both ways on that one though, as people do die from Covid-19 after 28 days, and the 28 days figures will miss people who died by never were tested, though this is hopefully less of a concern in the UK compared to some other countries.

Ultimately though, as noted, the numbers we're talking are of such a scale that diddling around the edges isn't changing the horrific reality of the situation. More than 110,000 people have died, and there does not exist of clear way of playing the denialism game anymore. 

The number of deaths registered in the UK in the week ending 15 January 2021 was 20,019, which was 4,347 higher than the five-year average; of deaths registered in the UK in the Week 7,766 deaths involved Covid-19.

There certainly isnt any obvious under reporting of Covid deaths here.

Is it possible that we are the only country reporting correctly hence why our death toll appears on the high side compared to others?

[Uptherams]

I can't wait for the end of this year when I'll permanently have the right to treat Covid fanatics like something I've stepped in, for daring to put me at risk of the Flu (I'm high risk). How dare you leave your home's, how dare your leave your home's when unwell. How dare you mix in groups. Putting me at risk. You selfish people.

Nah, think I'll just crack on. 

[Gone]

19 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

But to retain credibility you had to cling on to it it being plausible to your way of thinking.

Because without that, you just ridiculous for making stuff up.

It is my way of thinking, and I don’t mind looking ridiculous, there’s a lot on here who come across ridiculous to me, which is perfectly fine. When the pubs re-open (if there are any left) id love a forum meet up as I think we might all not be as ridiculous as we come across on here. 

[Guest]

Just now, TexasRam said:

It is my way of thinking, and I don’t mind looking ridiculous, there’s a lot on here who come across ridiculous to me, which is perfectly fine. When the pubs re-open (if there are any left) id love a forum meet up as I think we might all not be as ridiculous as we come across on here. 

Sorry to disappoint but I'm really this ridiculous in person too.

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry to disappoint but I'm really this ridiculous in person too.

Should of said “some of us” shouldn’t I 

[BIllyD]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yep and lots of other correlations as well.

99.9% of people that have suffered from Covid live in houses, as opposed to just 0.1% who were homeless. 

I assume that you agree that it would be better if we all started sleeping rough.

PS - I don't have any minutes or zoom calls recorded to back this up and I actually just made it up (just so you know which section to file this under)

You telling me something new ?‍♀️ That you make stuff up to suit your agenda...I think some of us had already guessed that ?

[BIllyD]

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not agreed, the cases recorded on ONS are where Covid was mentioned on the death certificate. 

Not sure what you are saying, I didn't say they wasn't ?

[Archied]

14 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

It is my way of thinking, and I don’t mind looking ridiculous, there’s a lot on here who come across ridiculous to me, which is perfectly fine. When the pubs re-open (if there are any left) id love a forum meet up as I think we might all not be as ridiculous as we come across on here. 

I think it would end in fisticuffs 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

You telling me something new ?‍♀️ That you make stuff up to suit your agenda...I think some of us had already guessed that ?

Yeah because as a 42 year old man, the best thing I could possibly think to do would be to go on a forum with people I don't know and just make up random stories.

Don't have any problem debating any issue with you and you making me look silly, but if you're just going to post childish tripe like this I would rather you not comment on my posts.

I won't block you because I believe in freedom of speech, however, if this is all you can resort to I certainly won't be engaging with you in future.