Coronavirus

[Bob The Badger]

11 hours ago, TexasRam said:

Nor have I, just made it up. Plausible though

Well, I'm glad you admitted you made it up.

But, the caveat of it being plausible undermines that, because it's highly implausible.

Of course some of the symptoms are the same, but the tests are totally different.

When I had my first COVID test they did a flu test first that took about 10-15 minutes.

After that came back negative and I had thrown up in the doctor's waste paper bin they tested me for COVID.

As far as I'm aware they're not guessing for COVID, they are testing for it.

So tossing out statements like it being plausible that some of the people have had the flu and not COVID is both dangerous because that is how rumours start and false information gets perpetuated, and demonstrates a lack of understanding.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Spanish said:

"facts"

Yeah guess you're right, probably should have referred to it as data rather than facts.

[Albert]

45 minutes ago, Archied said:

Nope , response to the tactic of calling any politician, scientist, medical person s view right wing , you obviously are unable to be honest so let’s make it more simple , show me where I have dismissed any of the scientists ,politicians, medical people promoting lockdowns as left wing as you and other do with those against these lockdowns ?

...mate, it's literally what you started with... it's right there...

Again, the fact that you've since needed to do a retake of what you're asking says it all.

45 minutes ago, Archied said:

you can’t do it because it’s not happened , it couldn’t happen because I don’t believe for a second that’s the case whilst you and others scream right wing constantly at anything that goes against your support of these lockdowns

Except nobody is. What people have done is point out that some of the "sources" posted on here are from right wing publications and think tankers. It's literally calling a spade of spade, it's who those groups are. 

Equally, hard to far right wing groups are out there campaigning against lockdowns etc, using those sources. 

Of course you wouldn't people calling for other actions left wing, as only one side has attempted to politicise the situation, as discussed. The thing is though, as noted, you originally said:

Quote

Right , go through the thread and find any post where I have framed any opinion on this situation as left wing or right wing

As noted, you also said:

Quote

All I’m seeing is left wing is spot on and right wing are twirling they’re mustachios and hatching plots,,

Answering the original request to 'find any post where [you] have frame any opinion on this situation as left wing or right wing'. 

[Sith Happens]

Looks like Greece are to introduce 'vaccine' passports.

Greece could be a second choice for us if our maldives holiday doesnt happen. As i should have had both my jabs by the end of April i should be ok then.

Not sure what my wife is going to do mind....ive offered to video call her every night though ?

[Sith Happens]

40 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

So tossing out statements like it being plausible that some of the people have had the flu and not COVID is both dangerous because that is how rumours start and false information gets perpetuated, and demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Too true, and if hes having his lockdown haircuts off George Thornes barber there is no telling how far it could go. ?

[BIllyD]

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Cant possibly be true if you've not seen it though surely?

I mean why would they even think of discussing it with a trade body before your goodself?

Do I believe it's true that the spike cannot be attributed to the eat out scheme, yes, do I believe that this is because it isn't possible to fully trace where some caught it, yes.
 

I have already provided you with figures that sector followed by shopping as the two areas that were most frequently visited by people who caught the virus and therefore only 3% could be "attributed" to the scheme. Therefore your figures don't really bring anything new to the table, other than a union trying to get its bingo halls back open quickly. 
 

Do I believe the government have provided the trade body any other figures other and above what's already been published and out there, not so much. Happy to be proved wrong on that though, I'm sure they have referenced the source and date somewhere ?

[G STAR RAM]

11 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Do I believe it's true that the spike cannot be attributed to the eat out scheme, yes, do I believe that this is because it isn't possible to fully trace where some caught it, yes.
 

I have already provided you with figures that sector followed by shopping as the two areas that were most frequently visited by people who caught the virus and therefore only 3% could be "attributed" to the scheme. Therefore your figures don't really bring anything new to the table, other than a union trying to get its bingo halls back open quickly. 
 

Do I believe the government have provided the trade body any other figures other and above what's already been published and out there, not so much. Happy to be proved wrong on that though, I'm sure they have referenced the source and date somewhere ?

Ah so you post something and it 'proves' it.

Righto.

Out of your 13% of people that caught the virus that had been in a hospitality venue, how many of them had also walked past other people in the street? How many had met other people in a home environment?

Or did 100% of them catch the virus when in hospitality venues? Sounds plausible ?

[Archied]

45 minutes ago, Albert said:

...mate, it's literally what you started with... it's right there...

Again, the fact that you've since needed to do a retake of what you're asking says it all.

Except nobody is. What people have done is point out that some of the "sources" posted on here are from right wing publications and think tankers. It's literally calling a spade of spade, it's who those groups are. 

Equally, hard to far right wing groups are out there campaigning against lockdowns etc, using those sources. 

Of course you wouldn't people calling for other actions left wing, as only one side has attempted to politicise the situation, as discussed. The thing is though, as noted, you originally said:

As noted, you also said:

Answering the original request to 'find any post where [you] have frame any opinion on this situation as left wing or right wing'. 

So you admit that people on here are crying right wing , right wing publication, right wing think tank ( check the first appearance on here)to stuff they don’t agree with and I’m not calling lockdown scientist , politicians, medics left wing but rather just responding to people’s pet obsessions, as you say calling a spade a spade?,

see it’s easy to admit it if you try

[Albert]

Just now, Archied said:

So you admit that people on here are crying right wing , right wing publication, right wing think tank ( check the first appearance on here)to stuff they don’t agree with and I’m not calling lockdown scientist , politicians, medics left wing but rather just responding to people’s pet obsessions, as you say calling a spade a spade?,

see it’s easy to admit it if you try

I'm not sure what you're saying has been 'admitted' here exactly. 

Are you saying that it is not correct to point out that such is from right wing think tanks, publications etc? What possible reason do you have for pointing that out being problematic? 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

So you admit that people on here are crying right wing , right wing publication, right wing think tank ( check the first appearance on here)to stuff they don’t agree with and I’m not calling lockdown scientist , politicians, medics left wing but rather just responding to people’s pet obsessions, as you say calling a spade a spade?,

see it’s easy to admit it if you try

You're wasting your time, no chance of him backing down on anything. 

He clearly is either not reading the thread or is just wumming accusing anyone, other than one certain person, of trying to create a right wing vs left wing issue.

[Gone]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

Well, I'm glad you admitted you made it up.

But, the caveat of it being plausible undermines that, because it's highly implausible.

Of course some of the symptoms are the same, but the tests are totally different.

When I had my first COVID test they did a flu test first that took about 10-15 minutes.

After that came back negative and I had thrown up in the doctor's waste paper bin they tested me for COVID.

As far as I'm aware they're not guessing for COVID, they are testing for it.

So tossing out statements like it being plausible that some of the people have had the flu and not COVID is both dangerous because that is how rumours start and false information gets perpetuated, and demonstrates a lack of understanding.

Oh get a grip it’s a football forum not PMs questions time. And it’s completely plausible, you don’t think every Covid death case counted was actually due to Covid do you? Really? A positive test in the last 28 days is the measure and if you have been tested positive no matter how you pass away thats going on your death certificate and counted in the statistics , even if your asymptotic when Ill with something else. 

So why wouldn’t we just pass a illness of as Covid after a positive test, you think flu has really disappeared this winter? Wow that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and starts spreading false information. Amazing, wow I’m shocked.

 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

Oh get a grip it’s a football forum not PMs questions time. And it’s completely plausible, you don’t think every Covid death case counted was actually due to Covid do you? Really? A positive test in the last 28 days is the measure and if you have been tested positive no matter how you pass away thats going on your death certificate and counted in the statistics , even if your asymptotic when Ill with something else. 

So why wouldn’t we just pass a illness of as Covid after a positive test, you think flu has really disappeared this winter? Wow that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and starts spreading false information. Amazing, wow I’m shocked.

 

As discussed, the 28 days figure is likely a underestimate. This is matched by other data from elsewhere. The notion that the deaths could be explained by anything else is well and truly debunked, and in the 'tinfoil' part of the arguments spectrum at this point. 

As to the flu, the expected effect of the restrictions used are a drop in flu numbers. This has been seen globally. For example, Australia has seen a drastic decline in seasonal flu, correlated with timing of restrictions, despite having few Covid deaths. 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Oh get a grip it’s a football forum not PMs questions time. And it’s completely plausible, you don’t think every Covid death case counted was actually due to Covid do you? Really? A positive test in the last 28 days is the measure and if you have been tested positive no matter how you pass away thats going on your death certificate and counted in the statistics , even if your asymptotic when Ill with something else. 

So why wouldn’t we just pass a illness of as Covid after a positive test, you think flu has really disappeared this winter? Wow that demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and starts spreading false information. Amazing, wow I’m shocked.

You already know what the answer to this will be.

Cases of flu are down due to the social distancing measures etc

Then a page later the same people will be saying cases of Covid are so high because people are not abiding by the social distancing measures.

[BIllyD]

16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ah so you post something and it 'proves' it.

Righto.

Out of your 13% of people that caught the virus that had been in a hospitality venue, how many of them had also walked past other people in the street? How many had met other people in a home environment?

Or did 100% of them catch the virus when in hospitality venues? Sounds plausible ?

You are just regurgitating exactly what I said ?

They can't determine, that was the whole point. This was based upon the previous information though, your union has been provided with the new latest up to date figures that prove none of these were the leisure industry, yes, figures that haven't yet been given out to the public domain ?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, BIllyD said:

You are just regurgitating exactly what I said ?

They can't determine, that was the whole point. This was based upon the previous information though, your union has been provided with the new latest up to date figures that prove none of these were the leisure industry, yes, figures that haven't yet been given out to the public domain ?

Can you show me where they said that please?

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You already know what the answer to this will be.

Cases of flu are down due to the social distancing measures etc

Then a page later the same people will be saying cases of Covid are so high because people are not abiding by the social distancing measures.

You try this on after claiming I'm 'wumming' above? Wow. Just wow. 

This has been discussed to death on here, to the level that you'd have to be genuinely on the wind up to post otherwise at this point. The reproduction number of Covid-19 is higher than the flu. This means that it's easy for the flu to be suppressed. The question of whether the spread of a disease is stopped or not is down to the level of controls, that that decreases the effective reproduction number. This means people not following restrictions will lead to Covid-19 flaring up, without necessarily reaching a point where the Flu will flare up. It's not complicated stuff. 

[Stive Pesley]

13 hours ago, TexasRam said:

My one and only argument is the restrictions we have now are and will do more harm to our Country than they will do good especially to those who will inhabit it longest. That’s it, nothing, more nothing else

That's fair enough Texas, I have very mixed feelings about that too because I can see exacty what you mean, but I'm feel like we're stuck between a rock and hard place, whereas you obviously feel that one is much worse than the other

But as an example, here in Derby there are currently massive delays with the post because of a covid outbreak at the sorting office - Something like 75% of the staff are now isolating. People have received no mail all week and it could be really important packages that are being delayed.

My point being that - even with a pretty stringent lockdown we are still seeing examples where bits of the country grind to a halt because of virus outbreaks. If we all just carried on as normal with no restrictions, then that would get exponentially worse, and not only would the NHS crumble, but all the damage we are knowingly doing to the economy, people's mental health and childrens education would happen anyway as a huge proportion of the workforce would end up isolating

There is no right answer sadly - and I wish more than anything that we could be operating under the level of restrictions that Sweden are, but we tried it and it wasn't working

At the end of the day, the economy will rebuild, kids are resilient and they will catch up, and people's mental health will improve once we get past this. Too many people have already died of Covid and they aren't coming back. It sucks but we will get through this

 

[BIllyD]

12 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The data supplied by the Government to our trade body when pressed for it seems to back this up.

 

10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Cant possibly be true if you've not seen it though surely?

I mean why would they even think of discussing it with a trade body before your goodself?

Maybe I misinterpreted when you said they were discussing it with your trade union ? Or maybe this isn't the latest information? I'm confused ?‍♀️ 

[Archied]

20 minutes ago, Albert said:

I'm not sure what you're saying has been 'admitted' here exactly. 

Are you saying that it is not correct to point out that such is from right wing think tanks, publications etc? What possible reason do you have for pointing that out being problematic? 

Well I would say that we have a right wing government that supports / enforce s lockdown and I don’t see you or anybody else ( myself included)  saying their view is not valid because they are right wing ,

grow up mate and accept when your wrong and applying double standards,

people lives are at risk and being destroyed from both sides of the lockdown debate and this pet obsession with right wing is frankly pathetic 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said:

That's fair enough Texas, I have very mixed feelings about that too because I can see exacty what you mean, but I'm feel like we're stuck between a rock and hard place, whereas you obviously feel that one is much worse than the other

But as an example, here in Derby there are currently massive delays with the post because of a covid outbreak at the sorting office - Something like 75% of the staff are now isolating. People have received no mail all week and it could be really important packages that are being delayed.

My point being that - even with a pretty stringent lockdown we are still seeing examples where bits of the country grind to a halt because of virus outbreaks. If we all just carried on as normal with no restrictions, then that would get exponentially worse, and not only would the NHS crumble, but all the damage we are knowingly doing to the economy, people's mental health and childrens education would happen anyway as a huge proportion of the workforce would end up isolating

There is no right answer sadly - and I wish more than anything that we could be operating under the level of restrictions that Sweden are, but we tried it and it wasn't working

At the end of the day, the economy will rebuild, kids are resilient and they will catch up, and people's mental health will improve once we get past this. Too many people have already died of Covid and they aren't coming back. It sucks but we will get through this

 

The one that is so frustrating with this is while things will recover, Texas is right, those that inhabit the UK the longest will be the hardest hit in many respects, particularly due to growing concerns about the long term health consequences of this disease. If the early data is to be believed, the health burden, and associated costs, could haunt the country for decades to come. What makes it more frustrating is that risk, and all the pain and suffering that is being caused right now, could have been prevented. 

Ultimately, the UK has locked down longer than it ever would have needed to, and is doing so with none of the benefits.