Coronavirus

[B4ev6is]

Once again population breaking cov 19 rules going out for christmas meal and then saying it was business meal once breaking them suits them. If they gather 27 other people so can rest of us.

[1of4]

Politicians are a perfect example of the Peter principle. The trouble is to many politicians reached that level well before they ever entered Parliament.

[sage]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.html

shameful

[ariotofmyown]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.html

shameful

No, shameful is the political stunt of Unicef using charity money to help feed hungry kids in London. So says the satirical performance artist known as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[sage]

4 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

No, shameful is the political stunt of Unicef using charity money to help feed hungry kids in London. So says the satirical performance artist known as Jacob Rees-Mogg.

what is also shameful is most of our newspapers haven't got the honesty and decency to investigate and report on this. 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

 

17 minutes ago, sage said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.html

shameful

I am surprised, I really believed them when I read  for the many and not the few.

How far is it to Barnard castle for an eye test?

[ariotofmyown]

19 minutes ago, sage said:

what is also shameful is most of our newspapers haven't got the honesty and decency to investigate and report on this. 

Most the newspaper owners are in the same set as the MPs and their chums. 

[Albert]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s easy for someone to suggest a better test and trace policy but it doesn’t mean they could have delivered it.

Closing borders and stricter quarantine also sounds like a good approach but would another party have implemented it?

It doesn't, but we already know more competent governments have done so. Many of the issues in the UK right now have been generated by appeasing industries ahead of actually saving them. A lot of minor short term gains for long term pain. 

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Given that:-

(a) Our economy relies on being a global travel hub

(b) Cases were probably into the tens of thousands before we realised how big the problem was

(c) We did not have a competent test and trace system in place 

(d) The public value their freedom over here 

They are not really viable solutions, even in hindsight.

a) Australia's economy relies on being a hub for travel in our region too, and our airline industry, per capita, was larger. 

b) This is just poor management, not an excuse. This is an excuse in the same way as 'but they're incompetent' is an excuse. 

c) Yep, this comes back to competence. 

d) The public value freedom over here too, which is why elimination was so important. I guarantee we'd be in the exact same position if the State governments didn't push ahead with elimination, against the wishes of the Federal Government.

There are plenty of viable solutions, and denying their existence is just going to make the cleanup from this all the harder. 

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Exactly.

Pie in the sky suggestions.

If I wanted to keep control of the virus I would have closed Chinas borders as soon as we heard of the virus.

The issue for spread wasn't China though, it was it coming through other regions. Australia closed borders to areas rapidly, particularly Iran and Italy, not just China. Australia also gets more direct travel from China, including Wuhan. 

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Here we go again, Albert is starting yet another circular argument that he's very well aware doesn't work at all. Elimination is not a viable strategy in the UK without a vaccine. Being an Island like New Zealand when you're in the middle of nowhere is very different from being an Island 21 miles away from mainland Europe, as you already well know. You ruin the good points you make when you repeatedly come back to die on this hill.

It's not a viable strategy anymore, but that's only because of the UK's choices. 

Whether an island be 21 miles or 10,000 miles, away from elsewhere, the key is about border control, not proximity. This hill of 'but our government isn't competent enough to achieve that' is an awfully weird hill to die on. Vietnam, with a literal land border with China, has successfully controlled the disease as well. As has Taiwan. 

You're not wrong though, the leadership in the UK wasn't competent enough to achieve elimination without a vaccine. 

[Grumpy Git]

17 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Most the newspaper owners are in the same set as the MPs and their chums. 

We need Robert Lindsay in full character.

 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

We want to be simultaneously in, and out, of Europe. We need Schrödinger's cat.

Ireland's got Schrödinger's border, so the precedent has been set.

Incidentally, if Boris hid in an airtight fridge, then would you have Schrödinger's t*at?.

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

It would have been hard to do much worse though.

Regardless of political opinions, the people in charge surely need to be competent and organised, with a decent communication style and able to portray at least an illusion that they are capable of making decisions.

These are criteria that the management team of a medium sized company need. You want pretty exceptional people to be in charge of a country.

True but would it have been easy to do much better?

[I am Ram]

Forgive me for being behind the times (stopped watching the news, it's all doom and gloom), but can i just sod off on holiday ? I've just been reading the Kay Burley saga, where in the end she apologised and flew to Africa. How come no one is talking about this in the msm, i've been suspended from work (furloughed?), could do with a break myself.

[Angry Ram]

15 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Forgive me for being behind the times (stopped watching the news, it's all doom and gloom), but can i just sod off on holiday ? I've just been reading the Kay Burley saga, where in the end she apologised and flew to Africa. How come no one is talking about this in the msm, i've been suspended from work (furloughed?), could do with a break myself.

You can go to most places as long as you comply with the individual rules. Quarantines etc. Looks for the airbridges, where restrictions are less. Prepare to have things changed / cancelled last minute but apart from that, fill yer boots.

[I am Ram]

2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

You can go to most places as long as you comply with the individual rules. Quarantines etc. Looks for the airbridges, where restrictions are less. Prepare to have things changed / cancelled last minute but apart from that, fill yer boots.

Thanks for the info, im having a look now ?

[ariotofmyown]

23 minutes ago, I am Ram said:

Thanks for the info, im having a look now ?

Let us know if you find any good deals and places to go with no quarantine.

 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

True but would it have been easy to do much better?

It wouldn't have been too hard to avoid killing all those people in care homes. Then assuming that happened again, it would have been easy to be open and honest about it, making the death rates clearer for the general population.

The Cummings debacle showed contempt for normal people and I'm sure contributed to people ignoring the rules. Looked even more stupid to back his blatant lies that he left anyway a few months later. He never did provide his phone as evidence that he didn't go back up there, surely Johnson wasn't involved in this deception?

It also wouldn't have been too hard to have an emergency procurement process that didn't include funneling loads of cash to your mates so they could create companies to manufacture poor quality PPE?

Having a clear and honest communication strategy is surely not so hard too. You need to bring people with you so they trust you. Not continually changing your mind and leaking to the media before all announcements. Then provide little data or detail on how lockdown decisions are made by area. Or keeping Tory MP areas open when other areas have worse metrics. The hopeless hyperbole of world beating app and track and test was so cringe.

Putting out adverts saying Labour want to destroy the economy with another lockdown (as SAGE were advising) then locking down 2 weeks later was pathetic.

Also pathetic was bragging about shaking the hands of Covid patients as the body bags were piling up in Italy. There was loads of informed comment that we needed major restrictions then but we assumed our infamous British exceptionalism would make us immune.

But it was still a tough situation for any government to deal with. It was bad timing we ended up with a mix of incompetents and wacky radicals in charge. A small c conservative government would have been much better in a crisis than a narcissistic fraud. 

[Angry Ram]

51 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

It wouldn't have been too hard to avoid killing all those people in care homes. Then assuming that happened again, it would have been easy to be open and honest about it, making the death rates clearer for the general population.

The Cummings debacle showed contempt for normal people and I'm sure contributed to people ignoring the rules. Looked even more stupid to back his blatant lies that he left anyway a few months later. He never did provide his phone as evidence that he didn't go back up there, surely Johnson wasn't involved in this deception?

It also wouldn't have been too hard to have an emergency procurement process that didn't include funneling loads of cash to your mates so they could create companies to manufacture poor quality PPE?

Having a clear and honest communication strategy is surely not so hard too. You need to bring people with you so they trust you. Not continually changing your mind and leaking to the media before all announcements. Then provide little data or detail on how lockdown decisions are made by area. Or keeping Tory MP areas open when other areas have worse metrics. The hopeless hyperbole of world beating app and track and test was so cringe.

Putting out adverts saying Labour want to destroy the economy with another lockdown (as SAGE were advising) then locking down 2 weeks later was pathetic.

Also pathetic was bragging about shaking the hands of Covid patients as the body bags were piling up in Italy. There was loads of informed comment that we needed major restrictions then but we assumed our infamous British exceptionalism would make us immune.

But it was still a tough situation for any government to deal with. It was bad timing we ended up with a mix of incompetents and wacky radicals in charge. A small c conservative government would have been much better in a crisis than a narcissistic fraud. 

My approach would have been brining in the leaders of the opposition into an inner circle and deliver a unified approach. This is not party political and hopefully (I know), they could rise above petty differences and delivered better solutions. I understand the arguments not to do that but this is an exceptional circumstance that has unfortunately turned into a point scoring exercise that serves nobody.

[ariotofmyown]

33 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

My approach would have been brining in the leaders of the opposition into an inner circle and deliver a unified approach. This is not party political and hopefully (I know), they could rise above petty differences and delivered better solutions. I understand the arguments not to do that but this is an exceptional circumstance that has unfortunately turned into a point scoring exercise that serves 

Definitely. Think I posted the same ages ago. Seems a fairly obviously thing to have done.

[I am Ram]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Let us know if you find any good deals and places to go with no quarantine.

 

I've googled no quarantine holidays, so far prices vary from costly, to very costly but you never know. We can go too these destinations so far - Antigua,Aruba,Cuba,Grenada,Maldives,St Lucia and the UAE .

[Ghost of Clough]

Just now, I am Ram said:

I've googled no quarantine holidays, so far prices vary from costly, to very costly but you never know. We can go too these destinations so far - Antigua,Aruba,Cuba,Grenada,Maldives,St Lucia and the UAE .

Make sure you speak to the Sheikh when you go on holiday and let us all know what the hold up is