Woodley Ram Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I can see this going like this. Mel presents the valuer of PPS who states that’s its worth the money Mel paid and giving his reasons for the valuation. the EFL will then produce a couple of other lower valuations Mel will then say I’m not a valuer so I accept why I ah w been told The EFL then have a problem as even if PPS is overvalued as Mel will not have misled them and in fact can say that he has been misled and paid to much. not sure where the EFL can go here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Woodley Ram said: I can see this going like this. Mel presents the valuer of PPS who states that’s its worth the money Mel paid and giving his reasons for the valuation. the EFL will then produce a couple of other lower valuations Mel will then say I’m not a valuer so I accept why I ah w been told The EFL then have a problem as even if PPS is overvalued as Mel will not have misled them and in fact can say that he has been misled and paid to much. not sure where the EFL can go here So Mel's argument will be he was misled and he paid himself too much... not sure that works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said: I can see this going like this. Mel presents the valuer of PPS who states that’s its worth the money Mel paid and giving his reasons for the valuation. the EFL will then produce a couple of other lower valuations Mel will then say I’m not a valuer so I accept why I ah w been told The EFL then have a problem as even if PPS is overvalued as Mel will not have misled them and in fact can say that he has been misled and paid to much. not sure where the EFL can go here There really is nothing doing. You cannot overvalue, or undervalue, an asset when transferring it between two companies you own. That's fraud. You pay for an independent valuation vetted by HMRC and then you pay that value. No arguments. The idea that he's overvalued the stadium to get the upper hand in FFP is crazy because we'd have to have broken the law to do it, not just risked footballing ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Spanish said: I suppose they do make the rules up as they gone along. Probably biggest risk is if the valuation is proven to be 'faulty' and there has been collusion. The valuers and the auditors are then in the firing line. The valuation was independent , if they accused independent valuers of “ fiddling “ the figures they would face a big legal battle. Nothing to see here for Derby. Could not comment on how Wednesday , Reading or Villa did their valuations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, BondJovi said: I don't see how it can be done. If they reverse this, aren't they just opening the floodgates? Gibson is a sad man trying to cover and distract from the fact his own club have ballsed up. I would guess that at some point all clubs have exposed a loophole for financial gain. "The sale of fixed assets is allowed in the rules. In 2016 a club [Boro] got promoted who chose to sell the tax loss from the football club to the parent company, because that then makes it revenue which is a positive towards profit, to help remain within Financial Fair Play." - Mel Morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 If they did find grounds to question DCFC/Mel for thd pride Park transfer, they might satisfy Gibson but open a can of worms for damages claims from Wednesday, Reading and ourselves for deciding their original decision was wrong. I think the EFL would be out of the frying pan and into the fire with massive representational damage and open to other claimants. The EFL may feel they've been played by cleverer operators than themselves, but that's a long way from pinning wrongdoing onto someone. Gibson refusing the offer to look over the records and taking action against the EFL instead suggests its more the EFL who could have messed up, and they are now trying to get themselves out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, SaintRam said: There really is nothing doing. You cannot overvalue, or undervalue, an asset when transferring it between two companies you own. That's fraud. You pay for an independent valuation vetted by HMRC and then you pay that value. No arguments. The idea that he's overvalued the stadium to get the upper hand in FFP is crazy because we'd have to have broken the law to do it, not just risked footballing ramifications. It’s not fraud and believe me that’s my line of work. He would only have broken the law if he deliberately conspired with a valuer to artificially inflate the value of PPD with the intention of circumnavigating the FFP rules . That would be very difficult to prove unless the valuer is going to say that the valuation was false and that’s not going to happen. Limited companies are their own legal entities ( Solomon v Solomon) so selling an asset between them is fine. Irrespective of who the directors are. the point I’m trying to very badly make is that it dosnt matter of the EPL get lower valuations, Mel acted on the independent one that he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAccessMemory Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The thing that makes me laugh about this whole situation is that people seem to have decided ours was obviously overvalued because Reading's was sold for so much lower. Did their stadium not cost approximately £50m to build at a not too dissimilar time to ours? How is theirs worth so little now? Do we know if they got a valuation for their sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Woodley Ram said: It’s not fraud and believe me that’s my line of work. He would only have broken the law if he deliberately conspired with a valuer to artificially inflate the value of PPD with the intention of circumnavigating the FFP rules . That would be very difficult to prove unless the valuer is going to say that the valuation was false and that’s not going to happen. Limited companies are their own legal entities ( Solomon v Solomon) so selling an asset between them is fine. Irrespective of who the directors are. the point I’m trying to very badly make is that it dosnt matter of the EPL get lower valuations, Mel acted on the independent one that he got. I also think that any reversal and subsequent punishment if possible would result in Derby going to CAS. CAS will rip holes in any EFL argument for going back on signing off something then renegaing. If the EFL refuse to go to Arbitration then that would put them in a very difficult position for any future disputes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therealhantsram Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 What I would say, is that it makes it very difficult to secure new investment with this hanging over the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Steve Gibson is a twerp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, philmycocu said: Steve Gibson is a twerp Is twerp the new word for Bamford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Paul71 said: Is twerp the new word for Bamford? Yes, he's a Bamford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, philmycocu said: Yes, he's a Bamford And a twerp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Paul71 said: And a twerp Yes he's a ducking twerp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, philmycocu said: Yes he's a ducking twerp A twerping Bamford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Twamford... or Berp? ...Ooh... Pardon me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said: The thing that makes me laugh about this whole situation is that people seem to have decided ours was obviously overvalued because Reading's was sold for so much lower. Did their stadium not cost approximately £50m to build at a not too dissimilar time to ours? How is theirs worth so little now? Do we know if they got a valuation for their sale? It’s a fair point you make , although having lived in Reading and owning a house in Derby I can tell you that property in Reading is significantly more expensive than Derby. but who cares Mel had an independent valuation end of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said: The thing that makes me laugh about this whole situation is that people seem to have decided ours was obviously overvalued because Reading's was sold for so much lower. Did their stadium not cost approximately £50m to build at a not too dissimilar time to ours? How is theirs worth so little now? Do we know if they got a valuation for their sale? They sold theirs on 'we buy any stadium. Com" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So the EFL cleared the stadium sale valuation after clearing it beforehand, but now want to investigate it again? Sue them back, absolute joke of an organisation. There’s no way anything should come of this, and if it does... well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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