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Middlesbrough to sue the EFL over Derby's Stadium Purchase


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4 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

I messed the post you quoted up, I asked for it to be deleted and posted a new one as I went over the time allowed to edit it.

Isn't that the whole point of getting the independent valuation done, to get the fair market value for the related party transaction? To make sure it's an 'arms length' value?

 

Hi I agree that is how an independent valuation should work but I guess the efl and that pratt in Muddlesborough are calling into question the level of independence. Remember that the independent Auditors of the Company accounts signed off the value in those accounts so it looks odd from the outside hence them having a look.

I still think that Mel will make a good case that it is worth more to the Company that has bought it purely because it adds to the other adjacent land owned by them which makes further development easier.

Given it is the EFL though they are more likely to give him a hard time.

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Forest fan here really can't see you getting any punishment from this and I would be embbaresed to be a Middlesbrough fan with this happening club making themselves look ridiculous after wasting all there parachute money as much as it pains me to say it your chairman seems like a really clever guy and good business man anyway hope there is no punishment for you yes we love to hate you but would rather it be through football than off field crap

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21 minutes ago, Nffcguest said:

Forest fan here really can't see you getting any punishment from this and I would be embbaresed to be a Middlesbrough fan with this happening club making themselves look ridiculous after wasting all there parachute money as much as it pains me to say it your chairman seems like a really clever guy and good business man anyway hope there is no punishment for you yes we love to hate you but would rather it be through football than off field crap

Sensible fans from other clubs are always welcome. There's even some begrudging praise of your fine start over on the Forest thread. FWIW, much as we all laughed at the Fawaz shambles, I don't too many of us wanted you in big trouble.

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On 13/09/2019 at 10:10, StarterForTen said:

The whole crux of this is the value of the stadium and I boil it down to this fairly simple view...

If anyone (be that Mel or any other businessman) wanted to build a 34,000 capacity stadium to the specification of Pride Park what would it cost them to do so? Whatever that cost is, is the real value of the asset. It is immaterial what the investor wants to do with it or it's likely returns - they are personal business issues. 

More than 20 years ago Pride Park is reported to have cost just under £30m to build. Currently, Brentford's new home is estimated to cost £71m; York City's new 8,000 capacity stadium is budgeted at £44m; the Southend stadium project is £80m; Everton's new home is estimated to cost £500m; Spurs' new cathedral cost £800m!!

I am no expert, but to put a value of circa £80m on building a copy of Pride Park does not seem wide of the mark to me.

So long as Mel took the steps of having a professional independent appraisal of the property, there is no case to answer.  

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47 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I wonder if i could sell my car to myself to force the insurance company to up the value?

If you can get an independent company to value it higher then I would imagine you can - I'm sure the insurance company will be delighted with your increased insurance payments

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1 hour ago, RamNut said:

I wonder if i could sell my car to myself to force the insurance company to up the value?

 

My general experience with insurance companies is "the customer always loses" - oh, someone bumped your car in a car park, we had to put your premiums up....you got older, younger, newer car, older car, changed job, changed address.....or if everything stays the same, we just put em up anyway and dare you to go trawling for better.

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Just now, RadioactiveWaste said:

My general experience with insurance companies is "the customer always loses" - oh, someone bumped your car in a car park, we had to put your premiums up....you got older, younger, newer car, older car, changed job, changed address.....or if everything stays the same, we just put em up anyway and dare you to go trawling for better.

This is a truism along the lines of death and tax....admin fee for changing your address if you inconveniently move house, Glasses guide valuation of your car if it gets written off or stolen which will be the price before the car forecourt have slapped their cut on, 50 - 50 payouts if your insurance company can't be bothered to fully investigate your claim..... 

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19 hours ago, Ramleicester said:

Hi I agree that is how an independent valuation should work but I guess the efl and that pratt in Muddlesborough are calling into question the level of independence. Remember that the independent Auditors of the Company accounts signed off the value in those accounts so it looks odd from the outside hence them having a look.

I still think that Mel will make a good case that it is worth more to the Company that has bought it purely because it adds to the other adjacent land owned by them which makes further development easier.

Given it is the EFL though they are more likely to give him a hard time.

I'm a little bit confused by your first paragraph, do you mean it looks odd from the outside (to the EFL etc) because the auditors signed it off? Or that it looked odd to the auditors so they had a look before signing it off?

If the first one, would the auditors have been given the information about the valuation with the accounts in order to sign it off? I don't know how it all works.

Do you mean more than he already paid for it? Mel has been on Talksport multiple times saying he paid the amount the independent valuation put on the stadium, so it's not like he paid more and has to justify that, surely?

The company (that Mel owns) that bought the stadium owns other adjacent land? Which land? (And is that already public knowledge?)

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8 hours ago, cheron85 said:

If you can get an independent company to value it higher then I would imagine you can - I'm sure the insurance company will be delighted with your increased insurance payments

 

9 hours ago, RamNut said:

I wonder if i could sell my car to myself to force the insurance company to up the value?

 

You can value it for as much as you like but if you then claim they will only give you book price

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On 13/09/2019 at 18:22, RadioactiveWaste said:

We've been on the radio 4 six o'clock news.

Implication in the report (reports middlesbrough action) was that we got an unfair advantage and PPS was previously valued at £41m.

so the BBC take is that we are in the wrong....

Well that's awful news for Middlesbrough as Kenny Burns valued Assombalonga at £50m so I imagine that puts them bang in FFP trouble.

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10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

My general experience with insurance companies is "the customer always loses" - oh, someone bumped your car in a car park, we had to put your premiums up....you got older, younger, newer car, older car, changed job, changed address.....or if everything stays the same, we just put em up anyway and dare you to go trawling for better.

I'd happily pay an increased premium each year, the younger I got!

Oh wait... will they take my licence off me when I reach 17 again?  

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7 hours ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

I'm a little bit confused by your first paragraph, do you mean it looks odd from the outside (to the EFL etc) because the auditors signed it off? Or that it looked odd to the auditors so they had a look before signing it off?

If the first one, would the auditors have been given the information about the valuation with the accounts in order to sign it off? I don't know how it all works.

Do you mean more than he already paid for it? Mel has been on Talksport multiple times saying he paid the amount the independent valuation put on the stadium, so it's not like he paid more and has to justify that, surely?

The company (that Mel owns) that bought the stadium owns other adjacent land? Which land? (And is that already public knowledge?)

When a firm of accountants audit a Company they sign off that the records and accounts are reasonable and correct which will include the value of assets.

If then an asset is sold at a higher value to conveniently create a profit to avoid serious FFP sanction then it is bound to look odd and questions asked. There is also the issue that selling the ground is a bit 'desperate' and is a one time deal (you cant sell your biggest asset twice) and I am sure the EFL will be keen to see that the underlying financial model is sound. After all that is what 'sustainability' should be about.

The EFL's motives are supposed to be to ensure the long term viability of the club for us fans. Sadly it ends up being a thing that just annoys us all.

I will try and check the info re the Veladrome and the land behind it but I do understand that there is a plan for a significant development of that area. If there is it will enhance the stadium value a lot.

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15 hours ago, TommyPowel said:

You can value it for as much as you like but if you then claim they will only give you book price

I should have been more specific - If you get an independent evaluation done and then get the insurance company to agree that's the value then that's what they'd pay out - However the premiums become MUCH higher if you've done that

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4 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I should have been more specific - If you get an independent evaluation done and then get the insurance company to agree that's the value then that's what they'd pay out - However the premiums become MUCH higher if you've done that

After spending 40 in the trade i have to disagree unless you can teach an old dog new tricks

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10 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

After spending 40 in the trade i have to disagree unless you can teach an old dog new tricks

Okay I may be wrong - But as I was aware you can insure at Market Value (you get whatever it is worth at the time to replace like for like) or Agreed Value (you set a value with the insurer and that's what they pay out) - Obviously premiums on Agreed Value are usually higher

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