Interesting summer ahead

[KCG]

14 minutes ago, Abu Dhabi Ram said:

I agree, Bennett, Waghorn or Marriott, any pair of these up top would trouble any team in the champ. No need for signings up front in my opinion.

Unless we have someone who can step up from the Academy, it's an area we definitely need to strengthen. Goal scoring was a real problem most of the season.

[Abu Dhabi Ram]

But is that because we only played one up top? I don't think any of them are great lone strikers, but as a pair I think they would be very strong. Bennett and Marriott looked great against Leeds, we got 4. Likewise Marriott and Waghorn I would have liked to have seen paired. 

[Andicis]

19 minutes ago, KCG said:

Unless we have someone who can step up from the Academy, it's an area we definitely need to strengthen. Goal scoring was a real problem most of the season.

Goal scoring was a problem because we weren't creating chances, more on our creative players than our strikers, and it coincided with Mount being injured.

[peachmyster]

17 hours ago, Andicis said:

Ludicrous, you're a joke. He's easily good enough for the Championship, he just isn't a lone striker.

Remind me how long he’s been here is it about 8 years and in that time  has he proved he’s good enough ? 

how many managers in that time have seen his potential and played him regularly 

he scores a fluke goal and a tap in this season which I will agree helped us win the matches 

but he’s no goal machine which is what we need and I’m sure the majority of 38,000 people at Wembley on Monday think the same when they saw his name on the starting 11 

 

[Andicis]

Just now, peachmyster said:

Remind me how long he’s been here is it about 8 years and in that time  has he proved he’s good enough ? 

how many managers in that time have seen his potential and played him regularly 

he scores a fluke goal and a tap in this season which I will agree helped us win the matches 

but he’s no goal machine which is what we need and I’m sure the majority of 38,000 people at Wembley on Monday think the same when they saw his name on the starting 11 

 

8 years ago he was 14. He's had bad luck with injuries and we've not had consistent management, by your own admission, which makes it hard to get used to one style of play.

Love how you can't even acknowledge what Mason has done this season without the huge amount of bitterness attached to it.

He's more of a winger, or a forward in a two. One man in that stadium thought Mason Bennett was who we needed, our manager, who sees Mason train every day. You want to cancel his contract, when he's probably not on huge wages, is Derby through and through, and has contributed to our successes this season?

 

[Zag zig]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

Goal scoring was a problem because we weren't creating chances, more on our creative players than our strikers, and it coincided with Mount being injured.

This.

Bennett was ok, the other two can be argued to be better finishers but we looked far better when Mount played. Wilson some games linked great with him, Lawrence could also spark at times. All allowed to do so with Johnson sitting. Two key ingredients need replacing and some thought about Thomas or Bennett vying for the wide berth.

Midfield and one position out wide is where we need to strengthen most, Marriott, Waghorn together or with Bennett is easily strong enough to terrorise most championship defences but only if we are able to play up to them with speed because whilst Waghorn and Bennett can make a fist of long/high balls, they are not old fashioned target strikers.  

Midfielders or wingers that show or offer movement for the defence to link is a priority, although Holmes looks better each game.

[peachmyster]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

8 years ago he was 14. He's had bad luck with injuries and we've not had consistent management, by your own admission, which makes it hard to get used to one style of play.

Love how you can't even acknowledge what Mason has done this season without the huge amount of bitterness attached to it.

He's more of a winger, or a forward in a two. One man in that stadium thought Mason Bennett was who we needed, our manager, who sees Mason train every day. You want to cancel his contract, when he's probably not on huge wages, is Derby through and through, and has contributed to our successes this season?

 

Were you happy he started ahead of Marriott and Waghorn then 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, peachmyster said:

Were you happy he started ahead of Marriott and Waghorn then 

I would have preferred Waghorn or Marriott to start. However the initial post I responded to, was you saying he should get his contract cancelled. Which is pure idiocy. I don't think Bennett is first choice for every game, however I think he's an invaluable squad player, we're more than just the 11 first team squad, and Bennett has played a big role this season. He has pace, power and directness that frightens defenders.

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Midfield and one position out wide is where we need to strengthen most, Marriott, Waghorn together or with Bennett is easily strong enough to terrorise most championship defences but only if we are able to play up to them with speed because whilst Waghorn and Bennett can make a fist of long/high balls, they are not old fashioned target strikers.  

Completely agree with this, if we can get good balls into those two we won't struggle to score goals, we need to make sure we control the midfield for longer periods of time next season, and play to our strikers strengths. Hopefully a good attacking midfielder to pair with Duane Holmes, with Shinnie behind them, and a winger to come in to fill the gap Wilson has left behind, and hopefully we can solve the problem.

[Wolfie20]

10 minutes ago, peachmyster said:

Were you happy he started ahead of Marriott and Waghorn then 

Starting with Bennett was fine but he should have had either Marriott or Waghorn alongside him, with the odd one out of those two coming on for most of the second half. The mistake was starting with Huddlestone.

[peachmyster]

6 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I would have preferred Waghorn or Marriott to start. However the initial post I responded to, was you saying he should get his contract cancelled. Which is pure idiocy. I don't think Bennett is first choice for every game, however I think he's an invaluable squad player, we're more than just the 11 first team squad, and Bennett has played a big role this season. He has pace, power and directness that frightens defenders.

IMO I don’t think he has played a big role this season I agree he  is Derby through and through but the championship is a tough league and if we want to progress we need better players and again Imo Bennett is not one of them.

[StantonRam]

hi all

Good to hear that the U18s will in some cases be breaking through soon.  I also seem to recall that Max Lowe will be back, and surely in contention after a (by all accounts) successful season on loan.  I gather we've signed Shinnie from Aberdeen, so presumably he'll be in contention for the holding slot.  That gives us potentially, from the players that we definitely have NOW:

new GK &/or Carson again &/or Roos

Bogle (yaaay)    Keogh or Evans   ??? or Evans   Lowe (yaaay)

???                              Shinnie               Holmes or ???

Bennett                     Marriott                      Waghorn

The main issue latterly seemed to be getting service to the strike force, whoever was playing upfront, and this was especially true when Mount was injured.  I've omitted Chris Martin, Bradley, Hudds & Bryso from the list because if FL is wanting to emphasise youth now I wonder where they will fit into that.  Also Thorne will be back, but does FL fancy him?  Could he return as cover for Shinnie or are his days here done?  What a shame if that's the case.  I've also omitted Josefzoon because sadly he seems to be turning into another Abdoul Kamara.

What we currently have, after all the loans have come and gone, is a good solid mid table side who are unlikely to be in the bottom 6 of the Championship but won't be threatening the top 6 either.  This season the 3 Ramateers provided the magic that enabled us to overachieve, but who will provide that this time?  IMO only Bogle and Holmes are approaching the same quality as the 3 loanees, with Lowe possibly getting there as well.  Marriott has proved himself at this level, and Waghorn is more or less Chris Martin mark 2, mostly doing the same job the same way but falling over a bit less often.

Apart from getting to Wembley, maybe the best thing about this season was the fact that after almost 60 games most people were still fit and up for it, so someone in the backroom staff must be getting most things right in terms of fitness, preparation, treatment of knocks etc, so well done them I say.  One reason why we often faded away previously was the ever increasing injury list towards the end of the season coupled with general knackered-ness, and that didn't really happen this time.

FL now has the chance to show how astute he really is in the transfer/loan market, let's hope he gets it right.

LR2

 

[Sparkle]

One player still under contract next season and on a high wage is Chris Martin - yep like him or not but on many occasions this season we turned up with Nugent up front who managed 2 goals from a lot of appearances and surely Martin would have been able to hold the ball up and play our advancing midfielders in and score some goals and yes win free kicks defend with headers etc. My main point is that whatever system and players we have under lampard an experienced championship campaigner up front is vital and if we own him then use him either off the bench or when someone is rotated.

[BaaLocks]

23 hours ago, Sparkle said:

One player still under contract next season and on a high wage is Chris Martin - yep like him or not but on many occasions this season we turned up with Nugent up front who managed 2 goals from a lot of appearances and surely Martin would have been able to hold the ball up and play our advancing midfielders in and score some goals and yes win free kicks defend with headers etc. My main point is that whatever system and players we have under lampard an experienced championship campaigner up front is vital and if we own him then use him either off the bench or when someone is rotated.

I was actually just about to ask (not accusatory, just to understand) if there are still people who genuinely remain of the view that there is a place for Chris Martin at Derby. I guess you've answered the question. Personally, my fuddle is well and truly beefed to think that anyone still holds that perspective but I guess that's what makes football the game it is.

[irobinson]

3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I was actually just about to ask (not accusatory, just to understand) if there are still people who genuinely remain of the view that there is a place for Chris Martin at Derby. I guess you've answered the question. Personally, my fuddle is well and truly beefed to think that anyone still holds that perspective but I guess that's what makes football the game it is.

for what he has done in the past. - its worth giving him the chance from the 1st July - to get extremely fit, and clear his head with any neg attitude, and show FL that he can be part of the set up. Why not - he's our asset. - and he could be our fourth striker option - target man

No point in wasting precious transfer money on strike force when we have Waggy, JM, MB, TL and CM

 

[BaaLocks]

53 minutes ago, irobinson said:

for what he has done in the past. - its worth giving him the chance from the 1st July - to get extremely fit, and clear his head with any neg attitude, and show FL that he can be part of the set up. Why not - he's our asset. - and he could be our fourth striker option - target man

No point in wasting precious transfer money on strike force when we have Waggy, JM, MB, TL and CM

 

One point I think we would agree on is that it's really hard to get promoted without a high scoring striker. This season the Blunts had Sharp, Villa had Abraham, Norwich had Pukki - look back through the seasons and there are very few teams get promoted without at least one prolific goal scorer. Since we came back down we've only had one player score more than 20 in a season and he seldom seems to get a mention when the dewy eyed nostalgia brigade fire up the memory banks and that is Vydra.

Without being harsh on our strike force I'd say I'm not sure Waghorn has it to be a top scorer, Marriott might, Bennett no chance. So, just as a wild shot, why not a speculative punt to bring Vydra back? He's scored one in thirteen at Burnley but if we paint Waghorn as the Emile Heskey I see no reason why both Marriott or Vydra couldn't play the Sheringham or Owen role off him. I'm not insisting, just saying that if I was to go back into the ex-players I'd be looking more at Vydra as an option than I ever would Martin (I do know that only one of those two has a contract with us btw).

[Edtheram]

No 4-3-3 next season, its been tried and tested many times by different manages and never gets us up. We look so threatening when playing 2 up top so i would like to think that we will play that way next season. Marriott and Waghorn as a strike force would be great, Bennett on the bench as i think hes better as an impact sub but also starting games when needed.

We have some good players in our ranks for next season, if they will still all be here by August who knows. Ive listed below the tried and tested players this season.

GK - ?

RB - Bogle, Wisdom

CB - Keogh, Davies, Evans

LB - Malone, Lowe, Forsyth

CDM - Shinnie, Huddlestone (Thorne)

CM - Holmes, Bird

CAM - Lawrence

ST - Marriott, Waghorn, Bennett, (Martin)

Wingers - Jozefzoon, Thomas, (Anya)

If we can add players to this squad 3 perms, 3 loans (Tomori) then we should have a strong team next season. Togethness and confidence can breed success, Frank and Jody will be a year wiser and the team will know whats expected. If we can get a good proven GK in i would be happy.

2018/19 - We came 6th on 74 points - we dropped 15 points to sides in the bottom 5 - those 15 points would of seen us go 2nd depending on goal difference - all we have to do next year is beat the teams we should be beating something we dont do almost every season. If we were to beat only the 12 bottom half sides home and away we would have 72 points in a season.

[Sparkle]

3 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I was actually just about to ask (not accusatory, just to understand) if there are still people who genuinely remain of the view that there is a place for Chris Martin at Derby. I guess you've answered the question. Personally, my fuddle is well and truly beefed to think that anyone still holds that perspective but I guess that's what makes football the game it is.

My point really was that yes we are paying him and yes he can contribute so why not as we have just used nugent who has been unable to contribute as much as we needed and as always if we can get better players then great otherwise use what we have

[BaaLocks]

1 hour ago, Edtheram said:

If we were to beat only the 12 bottom half sides home and away we would have 72 points in a season.

It's an easy game on paper.  To further make the point;

 

Beat the bottom half home and away - 72 points.

Win home, draw away to the top half not in the play offs or automatics - 24 points

Draw home, lose away to the top six - 5 points (we're one of them)

 

100 point season.

[rynny]

On 28/05/2019 at 21:39, peachmyster said:

IMO I don’t think he has played a big role this season

His contributions have helped gain an extra 14 points this season, to me that is a very big role this season. 

I find it funny that you use the fact he made his debut at such a young age against him.