The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Are you now genuinely saying that we weren't led to believe that this wasn't what we would get? That all the talk of easy deals, more cash to the NHS wasn't a promise so can't be held to account after the fact?

Yet strangely enough Project Fear was obviously an attempt to block Brexit. I don't recall being promised that there would be an emergency budget, so therefore it can't be used against the remain faction. There was a prediction of a downturn, but nobody used the word promise, and no politician pinky swore that it would be like that. 

You know you're talking rubbish. The leave factions told everyone there'd be more money, and we could give it to the NHS. They promised easy trade deals that would mean we would be better off. We were told Germany wouldn't allow us to leave without a deal.

Now we're told that we all voted for no deal all along, that nobody said there was more money to spend on the NHS (or anything else for that matter). 

You know, I will say Remain took advantage. That they expected a downturn but the BoE worked hard to prevent it. That money was spent giving every household a flyer promoting remain, but it is the government's duty to come up with a policy and to promote their position. Just that it didn't agree with yours doesn't mean they weren't right to do it. But for Leave to now say their behaviour can't be held up to scrutiny because it wasn't a promise - that's laughable, and dishonest.

Wooooo calm this aggressive language or you may get a warning. Or be told to put me on block.

I'm saying we were told that getting a trade deal should have been an easy process, and people in the know are still saying that now. Without politicians blocking the process of course.

I'm also saying that we were not promised cash for the NHS. I'll obviously stand corrected when you show me anyone promising that, and I assume it will be pretty easy for you to have this evidence to hand given that your likes have been banging on about it for the last 3 years.

The only people talking rubbish are the ones that tell everyone else what they voted for. Why not just own your own vote and accept that other people voted for reasons that you may not know.

Everyones behaviour is open to scrutiny but why not concentrate on what was actually said rather than just changing the narrative what you want it to say to suit your own agenda.

[Highgate]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

So does Trump deserve any credit for cooling tensions or not? Or just criticism for raising tensions in the first place?

Certainly he deserves criticism for raising tensions in the first place.  But neither of them followed through on their bellicose gibberish thankfully. 

As i said before I think Trump deserves credit for attempting to talk to Kim Jong-Un for all the good that it did. And I think the decision to cease the provocative military maneuvers with S.Korea was also a good move at the time.

But to be clear, the situation is quieter now not because of Trump's actions, but because North Korea now has the nuclear bomb it had desired for so long.  It doesn't need to continue testing.

[GboroRam]

44 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Wooooo calm this aggressive language or you may get a warning. Or be told to put me on block.

I'm saying we were told that getting a trade deal should have been an easy process, and people in the know are still saying that now. Without politicians blocking the process of course.

I'm also saying that we were not promised cash for the NHS. I'll obviously stand corrected when you show me anyone promising that, and I assume it will be pretty easy for you to have this evidence to hand given that your likes have been banging on about it for the last 3 years.

The only people talking rubbish are the ones that tell everyone else what they voted for. Why not just own your own vote and accept that other people voted for reasons that you may not know.

Everyones behaviour is open to scrutiny but why not concentrate on what was actually said rather than just changing the narrative what you want it to say to suit your own agenda.

Sorry if you think that me saying that you are talking rubbish is aggressive. 

Ah, so we were told it "should" be easy. You of course can back that up, because I just remember being told that our money was far too important to Germany, and Merkel won't let us leave without a deal. The discussion I read said that German car manufacturing needs us, and Merkel dictates to the EU what they have to do. Turns out that they only need us if politicians aren't blocking the process. 

If fingers were crossed, if we didn't say the word promise, I don't care. People were expecting to save money by leaving. People wanted to see money go to the NHS. None of this is going to happen because, promise or not, there is no £350m surplus from leaving. We are out of pocket. A honest bus would have said, send £350m to the EU every week? Let's leave and be £500m a week worse off - why not cut £150m from the current weekly NHS spend instead? Not such a vote winner, though, that one. 

[Comrade 86]

On 22/11/2019 at 06:42, Angry Ram said:

Was not my opinion. Just pointing out that there was an earlier thread on this very subject earlier in the year and people were arguing about giving food or money and which respected the homeless person. 
Might be wrong but I am sure it was agreed it was giving money that respected the homeless person. 
My post was tongue in cheek to the poster who did remember and get my point. 
Hole that explains it? 

Fair do's @Angry Ram don't recall reading the thread in question but my slant would be that it's hardly disrespectful to offer help of any kind to those sleeping rough. Had a thankfully brief period of homelessness in London and it was ducking grim. It's a city I still call home but it's a dark and remorseless place for those who are down on their luck or worse. There were very few small mercies in that time but all were most gratefully received. Seems odd to me that anyone could view putting food in anyone's belly as anything but of gesture of kindness and certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Sorry if you think that me saying that you are talking rubbish is aggressive. 

Ah, so we were told it "should" be easy. You of course can back that up, because I just remember being told that our money was far too important to Germany, and Merkel won't let us leave without a deal. The discussion I read said that German car manufacturing needs us, and Merkel dictates to the EU what they have to do. Turns out that they only need us if politicians aren't blocking the process. 

If fingers were crossed, if we didn't say the word promise, I don't care. People were expecting to save money by leaving. People wanted to see money go to the NHS. None of this is going to happen because, promise or not, there is no £350m surplus from leaving. We are out of pocket. A honest bus would have said, send £350m to the EU every week? Let's leave and be £500m a week worse off - why not cut £150m from the current weekly NHS spend instead? Not such a vote winner, though, that one. 

Can I see where all of your figures have come from please?

I wasnt aware that we had left yet?

Hope these figures are water tight or it may look like that you didnt know what you was voting for...

[Norman]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can I see where all of your figures have come from please?

I wasnt aware that we had left yet?

Hope these figures are water tight or it may look like that you didnt know what you was voting for...

The actual figures are 750 million a month, estimated. That is the cost of every month we delay. 

By people like him. 

Who then moan about the NHS being underfunded. 

Couldn't make it up. 

[G STAR RAM]

19 minutes ago, Norman said:

The actual figures are 750 million a month, estimated. That is the cost of every month we delay. 

By people like him. 

Who then moan about the NHS being underfunded. 

Couldn't make it up. 

Think you're getting confused.

The poster is happy to Leave allegedly.

[Norman]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think you're getting confused.

The poster is happy to Leave allegedly.

He will support the Conservatives then so we can get out swiftly without continuing to damage the economy. 

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Norman said:

He will support the Conservatives then so we can get out swiftly without continuing to damage the economy. 

But with the caveat that we have a proper plan and have all the trade deals sorted (you know the ones that the EU block us from signing while we are still a member)

[Norman]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But with the caveat that we have a proper plan and have all the trade deals sorted (you know the ones that the EU block us from signing while we are still a member)

Ah, yeah, those trade deals. 

Is this when I mock us for not doing any. Mock the fact that we have only got deals with Timbuktu? 

Even though we have deals with Australia, New Zealand, the Carribean, Switzerland etc. 

The USA are keen to do a deal when we are allowed to. Japan is close. 

A deal with the EU is inevitable. So that leaves China I think. 

Ah well. 

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Norman said:

Ah, yeah, those trade deals. 

Is this when I mock us for not doing any. Mock the fact that we have only got deals with Timbuktu? 

Even though we have deals with Australia, New Zealand, the Carribean, Switzerland etc. 

The USA are keen to do a deal when we are allowed to. Japan is close. 

A deal with the EU is inevitable. So that leaves China I think. 

Ah well. 

Yeah but none of them are signed yet so you didnt know what you was voting for?

[Gritstone Ram]

4 hours ago, Highgate said:

Certainly he deserves criticism for raising tensions in the first place.  But neither of them followed through on their bellicose gibberish thankfully. 

As i said before I think Trump deserves credit for attempting to talk to Kim Jong-Un for all the good that it did. And I think the decision to cease the provocative military maneuvers with S.Korea was also a good move at the time.

But to be clear, the situation is quieter now not because of Trump's actions, but because North Korea now has the nuclear bomb it had desired for so long.  It doesn't need to continue testing.

I think the problem is they haven’t got the missiles to carry one. It’s ok having a bomb but if you can’t fire it at your enemy it’s not much use. I think Trump told the North Koreans to stop trying to develop long range missiles.

[Highgate]

32 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I think the problem is they haven’t got the missiles to carry one. It’s ok having a bomb but if you can’t fire it at your enemy it’s not much use. I think Trump told the North Koreans to stop trying to develop long range missiles.

According to Wiki North Korea's Hwasong-15 missile is capable of reaching the continental US. 

Hawaii is clearly in range.  If Trump did tell the N.Koreans to stop developing long range missiles, he may have left it a bit late. 

[Gritstone Ram]

31 minutes ago, Highgate said:

According to Wiki North Korea's Hwasong-15 missile is capable of reaching the continental US. 

Hawaii is clearly in range.  If Trump did tell the N.Koreans to stop developing long range missiles, he may have left it a bit late. 

I’m not so sure. I think that’s why Trumpy nicknames him little rocket man.

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

Ah, yeah, those trade deals. 

Is this when I mock us for not doing any. Mock the fact that we have only got deals with Timbuktu? 

Even though we have deals with Australia, New Zealand, the Carribean, Switzerland etc. 

The USA are keen to do a deal when we are allowed to. Japan is close. 

A deal with the EU is inevitable. So that leaves China I think. 

Ah well. 

We are mostly a services economy. We also have one of the largest domestic markets in the world. London is the financial capital of the world. This year no, but it's dominated for hundreds of years and will continue to do so, just because of growth in the Commenwealth alone. 

People talk of us becoming a low tax economy like Singapore. The reality is the UK's potential is unrivaled and people like Boris Johnson and his team want to tap into this. I'm not talking about the Conservative party. That is just a vessel. Boris has many respectable allies from his time as Mayor of London who are not party political and that entourage continues to grow. 

The UK is a different beast to places like Singapore. The scope and draw on a global scale is so much more. 

Mark my words. The UK will also become the home of countless Chinese Billionaires too. Just like it did Russians. These people aren't actors or agents. They are and will merely be trying to escape the tyranny of their nation state. 

We should be welcoming them. Not trying to force them to seek refuge in other parts of the world. 

[Highgate]

21 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

I’m not so sure. I think that’s why Trumpy nicknames him little rocket man.

Trumpy?  Sounds like you are a fan !

[Gritstone Ram]

29 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Trumpy?  Sounds like you are a fan !

I wouldn’t mind being a few quid behind him. 

I’m not a fan of any American even though I haven’t met many. As far as Trump goes he does make me cringe.

[ariotofmyown]

"We give 350 million a week to the EU. Why not use this money so we can reduce the unfair tax burden on the wealthiest 1%, and also the richest companies who already hardly pay any tax relative to their gigantic profits."

They'd have needed a longer bus.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

We should be welcoming them. Not trying to force them to seek refuge in other parts of the world. 

No can do - we have to close the borders and stop immigration I'm afraid - it's the only way to save the country apparently - so we have been told REPEATEDLY on here

[maxjam]

12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

No can do - we have to close the borders and stop immigration I'm afraid - it's the only way to save the country apparently - so we have been told REPEATEDLY on here

Have we?

I see people talking about controlled immigration but can't recall anyone saying close the borders and stop all immigration.  If we've been saying it REPEATEDLY it should be very easy to quote a few examples.

Continuing to put words in other peoples mouths or throwing around sly accusations of racism or fascism is getting very boring.