The Politics Thread 2019

[Van der MoodHoover]

37 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

In Boris Johnson's own words "It was born of the highest motives – to keep the peace in Europe"

And so it came to pass - most wars are born of economic, geographic and human rights struggles. In creating a single market and closer economic ties between member states - plus the promotion and equalisation of civil rights via the FRA (https://fra.europa.eu/en/about-fra) it has defused those potential flashpoints. Yes, boring old diplomacy is preferred to war I guess. No bad thing

 

 

 

True. But we should also make sure we learn from history.

There were no major continental European wars between the Napoleonic and the Great War (disregarding the border skirmishes of the Franco-Prussian War and the Schleswig-Holstein War)..........and diplomacy plus the 19c organisation of Europe into massive power blocs ("Empires") supplemented by interlocking alliances was held up as the civilised model.

But when it went up.........boy did it go up! 

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Now that IS interesting - he'll have to declare his position well in advance of the election I would have thought in order to take any sort of advantage from an electoral "pact" with Farage.

And then how might the electorate react? I don't really have any idea how many of the 17m-odd leave voters would be totally on-side with a Farage "pure Brexit"........would be a huge knife edge of a decision, given the risk of alienating what might be a sizeable number of centrist Tories.......

Maybe, its all ifs and buts until the election results are in.

I guess Farage is banking on safe Tory seats remaining Tory seats and flipping (leave area) Labour seats to Brexit Party seats (which would otherwise have never gone to the Tories).  This would give the Tories a workable majority (imo) to get whatever they wanted done and get his version of Brexit done. 

Johnson maybe tempted, especially if polls show Lib/Labour/Brexit Party etc taking enough seats to make his life miserable again.  Centrist Tories might not like it but would they not vote and risk Corbyn?  Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I personally think a BP/Tory election pact would do very well, not sure Johnson will go for it just yet however it will need the polls to head south a bit before he takes the offer. 

[G STAR RAM]

34 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Even if they are being paid cash in hand?

They aren't 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

"Nigel Farage has called on Boris Johnson to drop his Brexit deal or face his party's candidates in every seat.

Speaking at the Brexit Party's election campaign launch, he called on the PM to "build a Leave alliance" and seek a free trade agreement with the EU.

If Mr Johnson refuses, Mr Farage said he already had 500 candidates he could field against the Tories in seats across England, Scotland and Wales."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50261647

I guess there will be a Brexit party candidate in every seat then because Farage knows full well Johnson cannot drop his deal now, although I suspect the quality of those candidates will be absolute toilet. Any fruitcake willing to stump up the fee is probably good enough for that rabble.

[G STAR RAM]

56 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

"Nigel Farage has called on Boris Johnson to drop his Brexit deal or face his party's candidates in every seat.

Speaking at the Brexit Party's election campaign launch, he called on the PM to "build a Leave alliance" and seek a free trade agreement with the EU.

If Mr Johnson refuses, Mr Farage said he already had 500 candidates he could field against the Tories in seats across England, Scotland and Wales."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50261647

I guess there will be a Brexit party candidate in every seat then because Farage knows full well Johnson cannot drop his deal now, although I suspect the quality of those candidates will be absolute toilet. Any fruitcake willing to stump up the fee is probably good enough for that rabble.

Think this shows that Farage is just the same as all the rest.

On a big ego trip here.

Willing to risk Brexit after all he has done.

Think he will lose support if he does this.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think this shows that Farage is just the same as all the rest.

On a big ego trip here.

Willing to risk Brexit after all he has done.

Think he will lose support if he does this.

I don't think he ever wanted Brexit. He's made a small fortune off the EU, the longer we are in the longer he can string out his earnings.

[tomsdubs]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think this shows that Farage is just the same as all the rest.

On a big ego trip here.

Willing to risk Brexit after all he has done.

Think he will lose support if he does this.

Farage doesn't want Brexit, it's the only trying that keeps him relevant. MEP job he's had for years with a fat wage and well cushty pension. Doesn't even have to turn up to work to get it either. Remember when Brexit kicked off he wanted a Norway style Brexit?  Farage always changes the conditions of acceptance and calls for extensions, surprise surprise.

[Grumpy Git]

8 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Farage doesn't want Brexit, it's the only trying that keeps him relevant. MEP job he's had for years with a fat wage and well cushty pension. Doesn't even have to turn up to work to get it either. Remember when Brexit kicked off he wanted a Norway style Brexit?  Farage always changes the conditions of acceptance and calls for extensions, surprise surprise.

................. and destroys my business in the process. I'd like to put him, Cameron & Johnson in a sack and throw them in the Thames, (with a few kilos of lead for good measure).

[G STAR RAM]

37 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

................. and destroys my business in the process. I'd like to put him, Cameron & Johnson in a sack and throw them in the Thames, (with a few kilos of lead for good measure).

I'm sure it's been asked before but what business are you in that is being destroyed by Brexit?

[ariotofmyown]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm sure it's been asked before but what business are you in that is being destroyed by Brexit?

A business that produces experts. No need for them anymore.

[AndyinLiverpool]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Yes at the time but geographically Europe. Do you really think that being a member of the EU at that time would have stopped the genocide? 

Also the question was what would the EU look like in 30 years? What about Turkey, Albania, Russia? All ifs and buts today but in 10 years? 

Yes, I do.

I've no idea what the EU will look like in the future. But it doesn't really matter to us any more, does it? That said, I don't read Russia's antagonism to the EU as a secret desire to join. Perhaps they are like the kid in the playground pulling the girl's pigtails when he secretly wants to kiss her but I doubt it. As for the other two, we will not be able to veto them any more so what has it got to do with us?

[Angry Ram]

21 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Yes, I do.

I've no idea what the EU will look like in the future. But it doesn't really matter to us any more, does it? That said, I don't read Russia's antagonism to the EU as a secret desire to join. Perhaps they are like the kid in the playground pulling the girl's pigtails when he secretly wants to kiss her but I doubt it. As for the other two, we will not be able to veto them any more so what has it got to do with us?

So we don’t know what Brexit looks like and we don’t know what the EU looks like.. Takes some steam out of the remain argument..

Just goes to show, nobody can tell the future, unless of course you are a remainer who quotes facts about it..

Russia was a joke by the way..

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

37 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

So we don’t know what Brexit looks like and we don’t know what the EU looks like.. Takes some steam out of the remain argument..

Just goes to show, nobody can tell the future, unless of course you are a remainer who quotes facts about it..

Russia was a joke by the way..

Not really because nobody can accurately tell us what the UK will look like in 10 years after Brexit so surely that takes just as much steam out of the leave argument?

[GboroRam]

5 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Yes at the time but geographically Europe. 

We're not leaving Europe geographically. Just the EU. 

[Angry Ram]

8 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

We're not leaving Europe geographically. Just the EU. 

Bloody hell read the previous posts. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

So we don’t know what Brexit looks like and we don’t know what the EU looks like.. Takes some steam out of the remain argument..

Just goes to show, nobody can tell the future, unless of course you are a remainer who quotes facts about it..

Russia was a joke by the way..

I think the assumption made was that to us, it would look similar. 

That's because we had various opt outs and as a nation have a veto in the Council so could stop any of the really big stuff.

Is it a valid assumption? Who knows, but I guess that the remain default setting is that it's the status quo.

[Angry Ram]

58 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Not really because nobody can accurately tell us what the UK will look like in 10 years after Brexit so surely that takes just as much steam out of the leave argument?

That was my point. The remain argument works both ways. Well done for completely missing it. 

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Bloody hell read the previous posts. 

No wars in 35 years. 

What about Yugoslavia? 

They weren't in the EU. 

Yes but they are still in the continent of Europe. 

 

So, EU members have avoided war for 35 years. Europe has not. We are moving from the first group to being just the second. 

Have I missed anything? 

[Stive Pesley]

51 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

No wars in 35 years. 

What about Yugoslavia? 

They weren't in the EU. 

Yes but they are still in the continent of Europe. 

 

So, EU members have avoided war for 35 years. Europe has not. We are moving from the first group to being just the second. 

Have I missed anything? 

To be fair - Yugoslavia was always a union of several countries and Tito kept them in line by making it clear that the Yugoslav state was bigger than any nationalistic crap that certain factions wanted to push. Once he was gone it pretty quickly descended into civil war

Do you think that the UK will fare any differently once we leave the EU?

[GboroRam]

7 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

To be fair - Yugoslavia was always a union of several countries and Tito kept them in line by making it clear that the Yugoslav state was bigger than any nationalistic crap that certain factions wanted to push. Once he was gone it pretty quickly descended into civil war

Do you think that the UK will fare any differently once we leave the EU?

I'm still trying to work out how it's the EU's fault that they never prevented wars between countries that aren't members. I tried reading the previous posts as suggested but it didn't help.