The_Sheriff Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Looks a bad start. No reply to all the questions since the opening post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club84 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Club 84 again! A genuine thank you to everyone for their feedback. If we may respond to some of this constructive criticism... With regards to the comments in relation to the a-political nature of Club 84, whilst we absolutely will not change our policy, we may have to look at the way we present our message in the future. It seems that an attempt to deliver information with humour, regardless of whether it’s actually funny or not, courses more problems than it’s worth. The real point is that Club 84 does not have any political affiliations and will not tolerate any, particularly in a time of deeply divisive national discourse. Whilst some have criticised the group for even mentioning sectarianism as a potential issue, I would refer them to the anti-catholic chants sang by England supporters throughout 2018. Discrimination in any guise will not be tolerated by our community. For those who believed that this part of our mission statement referred to the banning of certain geographical areas from supporting Derby County, I’m afraid you may be beyond help. The feedback with regards to the twenty is plenty campaign is very valid. What I would say is that our position is covered inmore detail in the first instalment of our No Ordinary Ethics blog found on our website. We have a great deal of sympathy for Mel Morris in relation to how he makes money for Derby County within a broken system. Despite this sympathy, we as a fan group would not be doing our duty if we did not fight on behalf of the loyal supporters now priced out of watching the football club they love. We are certainly not an anti Mel Morris group but neither do we think it is fair, or indeed beneficial for the long term future of Derby County, to be charging such extortionate prices. Another very sensible query is how Club 84 would practically suggest creating a singing section. This is undoubtedly quite a significant logistical issue. What is clear is that forcing people to move from any area of the ground is unethical. Even if we attempted to argue to the contrary, Derby County have made it clear that they are not willing to entertain this idea. There aretherefore two options open to Club 84 and the Football Club. The first is to designate a block and inform supporters that this area is for the most vocal of our fan base and that if they would like to be a part of this contingent then they would be most welcome, but that there is equally affordable seating elsewhere within Pride Park should they wish to relocate. The second option is that Club 84 situates itself in a less desirable location within the South Stand where tickets are available on mass. This availability does exist for in excess of 200 supporters in the lower tier of the South Stand. There are positives and negatives with regards to both options and they are being considered. The comment in relation to personal glory is a rather strange accusation. Anyone who has tried to bring to life an idea using the power of the internet will know that personal glory is incredibly unlikely to be your experience. We are seeing a consistent critique of our ambitions that uses the logic that many before have tried and failed and therefore we are also destined to also falter. Everyone at Club 84 hopes that those who hold said opinion do not work as medical scientists trying to find cures for diseases. Such an ultra pessimistic view would seem to breed a reluctant acceptance of the inadequate or substandard. Feel free to keep that philosophy but it’s not one that Club 84 shall be adopting. Moreover the very fact that many have tried is proof, if proof be needed, that something needs fixing. That is unless you are of the belief that Derby is no longer a passionate football city. We at Club 84 certainly don’t believe that to be the case. To be blunt, the team performance on the pitch as a defence of the flat atmosphere holds no standing with Club 84 as an argument whatsoever. The East Midlands derby has never in its history needed an exciting game to bring about fervent intensity from the stand of the Baseball Ground or Pride Parkbefore, yet this season the game may as well have been played behind closed doors. This theory also assumes that the number one motive for supporting a football club is to be entertained. This completely ignores the sense of community, family and a pride in the city that following Derby County encompasses. Besides, if you’ve been coming for the quality of the football season on season since 1999 then you need sectioning. It’s not like the Frank Lampard era is difficult to become enthused by, yet he is having to beg for vocal backing. There is still plenty to do our end to make Club 84 successful in achieving its ambitions. We are very open to constructive criticism and only today altered our mission statement slightly. We are also very open to working with other organisations from within the Derby County and the wider football community. In fact we are actively seeking to develop these relationships. We have learnt a great deal from the groups that have gone before us and we will continue to develop in order to last the distance. For our latest news please do use our website and follow us on social media. Or not. No bother. We’re here to stay regardless. p.s. we will be recycling bits of the above for the next blog update as some of your questions and concerns have been shared on other mediums. Kind regards Club 84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club84 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, Simsy said: Looks a bad start. No reply to all the questions since the opening post! Just waited for the dust to settle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Club84 said: Club 84 again! A genuine thank you to everyone for their feedback. If we may respond to some of this constructive criticism... With regards to the comments in relation to the a-political nature of Club 84, whilst we absolutely will not change our policy, we may have to look at the way we present our message in the future. It seems that an attempt to deliver information with humour, regardless of whether it’s actually funny or not, courses more problems than it’s worth. The real point is that Club 84 does not have any political affiliations and will not tolerate any, particularly in a time of deeply divisive national discourse. Whilst some have criticised the group for even mentioning sectarianism as a potential issue, I would refer them to the anti-catholic chants sang by England supporters throughout 2018. Discrimination in any guise will not be tolerated by our community. For those who believed that this part of our mission statement referred to the banning of certain geographical areas from supporting Derby County, I’m afraid you may be beyond help. The feedback with regards to the twenty is plenty campaign is very valid. What I would say is that our position is covered inmore detail in the first instalment of our No Ordinary Ethics blog found on our website. We have a great deal of sympathy for Mel Morris in relation to how he makes money for Derby County within a broken system. Despite this sympathy, we as a fan group would not be doing our duty if we did not fight on behalf of the loyal supporters now priced out of watching the football club they love. We are certainly not an anti Mel Morris group but neither do we think it is fair, or indeed beneficial for the long term future of Derby County, to be charging such extortionate prices. Another very sensible query is how Club 84 would practically suggest creating a singing section. This is undoubtedly quite a significant logistical issue. What is clear is that forcing people to move from any area of the ground is unethical. Even if we attempted to argue to the contrary, Derby County have made it clear that they are not willing to entertain this idea. There aretherefore two options open to Club 84 and the Football Club. The first is to designate a block and inform supporters that this area is for the most vocal of our fan base and that if they would like to be a part of this contingent then they would be most welcome, but that there is equally affordable seating elsewhere within Pride Park should they wish to relocate. The second option is that Club 84 situates itself in a less desirable location within the South Stand where tickets are available on mass. This availability does exist for in excess of 200 supporters in the lower tier of the South Stand. There are positives and negatives with regards to both options and they are being considered. The comment in relation to personal glory is a rather strange accusation. Anyone who has tried to bring to life an idea using the power of the internet will know that personal glory is incredibly unlikely to be your experience. We are seeing a consistent critique of our ambitions that uses the logic that many before have tried and failed and therefore we are also destined to also falter. Everyone at Club 84 hopes that those who hold said opinion do not work as medical scientists trying to find cures for diseases. Such an ultra pessimistic view would seem to breed a reluctant acceptance of the inadequate or substandard. Feel free to keep that philosophy but it’s not one that Club 84 shall be adopting. Moreover the very fact that many have tried is proof, if proof be needed, that something needs fixing. That is unless you are of the belief that Derby is no longer a passionate football city. We at Club 84 certainly don’t believe that to be the case. To be blunt, the team performance on the pitch as a defence of the flat atmosphere holds no standing with Club 84 as an argument whatsoever. The East Midlands derby has never in its history needed an exciting game to bring about fervent intensity from the stand of the Baseball Ground or Pride Parkbefore, yet this season the game may as well have been played behind closed doors. This theory also assumes that the number one motive for supporting a football club is to be entertained. This completely ignores the sense of community, family and a pride in the city that following Derby County encompasses. Besides, if you’ve been coming for the quality of the football season on season since 1999 then you need sectioning. It’s not like the Frank Lampard era is difficult to become enthused by, yet he is having to beg for vocal backing. There is still plenty to do our end to make Club 84 successful in achieving its ambitions. We are very open to constructive criticism and only today altered our mission statement slightly. We are also very open to working with other organisations from within the Derby County and the wider football community. In fact we are actively seeking to develop these relationships. We have learnt a great deal from the groups that have gone before us and we will continue to develop in order to last the distance. For our latest news please do use our website and follow us on social media. Or not. No bother. We’re here to stay regardless. p.s. we will be recycling bits of the above for the next blog update as some of your questions and concerns have been shared on other mediums. Kind regards Club 84 Best of luck. I don’t think Pride Park is the worst in the country, but anything to improve the match day experience, I’m more than up for. Learn from the former groups and other clubs, see through the criticism and get chipping away and you might get some traction! If there’s anything I can get involved in, I’d be up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Club84 said: Club 84 again! A genuine thank you to everyone for their feedback. If we may respond to some of this constructive criticism... With regards to the comments in relation to the a-political nature of Club 84, whilst we absolutely will not change our policy, we may have to look at the way we present our message in the future. It seems that an attempt to deliver information with humour, regardless of whether it’s actually funny or not, courses more problems than it’s worth. The real point is that Club 84 does not have any political affiliations and will not tolerate any, particularly in a time of deeply divisive national discourse. Whilst some have criticised the group for even mentioning sectarianism as a potential issue, I would refer them to the anti-catholic chants sang by England supporters throughout 2018. Discrimination in any guise will not be tolerated by our community. For those who believed that this part of our mission statement referred to the banning of certain geographical areas from supporting Derby County, I’m afraid you may be beyond help. The feedback with regards to the twenty is plenty campaign is very valid. What I would say is that our position is covered inmore detail in the first instalment of our No Ordinary Ethics blog found on our website. We have a great deal of sympathy for Mel Morris in relation to how he makes money for Derby County within a broken system. Despite this sympathy, we as a fan group would not be doing our duty if we did not fight on behalf of the loyal supporters now priced out of watching the football club they love. We are certainly not an anti Mel Morris group but neither do we think it is fair, or indeed beneficial for the long term future of Derby County, to be charging such extortionate prices. Another very sensible query is how Club 84 would practically suggest creating a singing section. This is undoubtedly quite a significant logistical issue. What is clear is that forcing people to move from any area of the ground is unethical. Even if we attempted to argue to the contrary, Derby County have made it clear that they are not willing to entertain this idea. There aretherefore two options open to Club 84 and the Football Club. The first is to designate a block and inform supporters that this area is for the most vocal of our fan base and that if they would like to be a part of this contingent then they would be most welcome, but that there is equally affordable seating elsewhere within Pride Park should they wish to relocate. The second option is that Club 84 situates itself in a less desirable location within the South Stand where tickets are available on mass. This availability does exist for in excess of 200 supporters in the lower tier of the South Stand. There are positives and negatives with regards to both options and they are being considered. The comment in relation to personal glory is a rather strange accusation. Anyone who has tried to bring to life an idea using the power of the internet will know that personal glory is incredibly unlikely to be your experience. We are seeing a consistent critique of our ambitions that uses the logic that many before have tried and failed and therefore we are also destined to also falter. Everyone at Club 84 hopes that those who hold said opinion do not work as medical scientists trying to find cures for diseases. Such an ultra pessimistic view would seem to breed a reluctant acceptance of the inadequate or substandard. Feel free to keep that philosophy but it’s not one that Club 84 shall be adopting. Moreover the very fact that many have tried is proof, if proof be needed, that something needs fixing. That is unless you are of the belief that Derby is no longer a passionate football city. We at Club 84 certainly don’t believe that to be the case. To be blunt, the team performance on the pitch as a defence of the flat atmosphere holds no standing with Club 84 as an argument whatsoever. The East Midlands derby has never in its history needed an exciting game to bring about fervent intensity from the stand of the Baseball Ground or Pride Parkbefore, yet this season the game may as well have been played behind closed doors. This theory also assumes that the number one motive for supporting a football club is to be entertained. This completely ignores the sense of community, family and a pride in the city that following Derby County encompasses. Besides, if you’ve been coming for the quality of the football season on season since 1999 then you need sectioning. It’s not like the Frank Lampard era is difficult to become enthused by, yet he is having to beg for vocal backing. There is still plenty to do our end to make Club 84 successful in achieving its ambitions. We are very open to constructive criticism and only today altered our mission statement slightly. We are also very open to working with other organisations from within the Derby County and the wider football community. In fact we are actively seeking to develop these relationships. We have learnt a great deal from the groups that have gone before us and we will continue to develop in order to last the distance. For our latest news please do use our website and follow us on social media. Or not. No bother. We’re here to stay regardless. p.s. we will be recycling bits of the above for the next blog update as some of your questions and concerns have been shared on other mediums. Kind regards Club 84 Why do I feel like I have just read minutes of a business meeting.. ’Our community’ ‘No oridinary ethics’ ‘A-political’. Was being ‘political’ an issue with other groups? Not sure I remember any sectarian songs at PPS? Please explain why, in your opinion, team performance bears no relationship to the atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Waffle said: Best of luck. I don’t think Pride Park is the worst in the country, but anything to improve the match day experience, I’m more than up for. Learn from the former groups and other clubs, see through the criticism and get chipping away and you might get some traction! If there’s anything I can get involved in, I’d be up for it. Nice offer, but to be fair Waffle is not something they seem in short supply of. Like you l wish them the best in trying to improve the match day experience, as long as it is not to any counter detriment of the club and it’s supporters more generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Club84 said: The feedback with regards to the twenty is plenty campaign is very valid. What I would say is that our position is covered inmore detail in the first instalment of our No Ordinary Ethics blog found on our website. We have a great deal of sympathy for Mel Morris in relation to how he makes money for Derby County within a broken system. Despite this sympathy, we as a fan group would not be doing our duty if we did not fight on behalf of the loyal supporters now priced out of watching the football club they love. We are certainly not an anti Mel Morris group but neither do we think it is fair, or indeed beneficial for the long term future of Derby County, to be charging such extortionate prices. £10 here or there isn't going to make much difference for the causal fan when the whole day (travel, food, drinks, ticket) will set a single person back £50-60. Finding a way to make the whole day more cost-effective may be a better use of time. The fan tent is a huge success but I know a lot of people don't bother due to poor selection of drinks, long queues and it being overcrowded. What about organising for a couple more being set up around the ground with some local drinks and food stalls at decent prices? How about organising bus runs from outer towns which will be cheaper than using the train or other forms of public transport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just to chime in about the atmosphere at PP (as this came up on my feed today), it's the same everywhere. Even Anfield and the Etihad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: £10 here or there isn't going to make much difference for the causal fan when the whole day (travel, food, drinks, ticket) will set a single person back £50-60. Finding a way to make the whole day more cost-effective may be a better use of time. The fan tent is a huge success but I know a lot of people don't bother due to poor selection of drinks, long queues and it being overcrowded. What about organising for a couple more being set up around the ground with some local drinks and food stalls at decent prices? How about organising bus runs from outer towns which will be cheaper than using the train or other forms of public transport? I’ve often thought about this. We have a lot of sponsors, in Germany and (I hate to say it) even in the States, the tents/facilities/prematch events are better than what we have in England. I’d definitely get to the ground earlier if I knew there was more stuff to get involved with. I do think the tent is a huge step in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Why do I feel like I have just read minutes of a business meeting.. ’Our community’ ‘No oridinary ethics’ ‘A-political’. Was being ‘political’ an issue with other groups? Not sure I remember any sectarian songs at PPS? Please explain why, in your opinion, team performance bears no relationship to the atmosphere? Terrible performances, cracking support - us at any point in 2007/08 Fantastic performances, mute support - Etihad at any point in the past 2/3 years There's no reason why support has to be solely related to events on the pitch. That assumes a 21st century mentality of expecting to be entertained when the reason many go to a match is to show support & pride in their city/football team. I'm sure you come from an era where that was the default setting rather than the sanitised 'customer experience' we often see these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said: Terrible performances, cracking support - us at any point in 2007/08 Fantastic performances, mute support - Etihad at any point in the past 2/3 years There's no reason why support has to be solely related to events on the pitch. That assumes a 21st century mentality of expecting to be entertained when the reason many go to a match is to show support & pride in their city/football team. I'm sure you come from an era where that was the default setting rather than the sanitised 'customer experience' we often see these days. Blimey 2007/08, that's an exception. We all knew we were going to get relegated and took that season for what it was. One big jolly boys outing. Any other examples, where there was at least somesort of competitive playing field. Man City? I suppose anyone at the top of the tree it could also apply to. Are they football matches or tourist events. A large section of the attendance is a different demographic. Is the Premier League football anyway. I live in a Chelsea hotbed and they hate it now. I suppose it's like anything, there will always be exceptions to the rule. But generally I stand by my point that with DCFC struggling on the pitch and todays general expectations of tip top performance week in week out. No amount of flags and clappers will make a difference. Let's take Leeds for example as they can rightly claim to having one of the better (in turns of numbers) fan bases. Apart from this year, going to Elland Road aint been that great from at atmosphere. What has changed this year? A decent team. generally putting in decent performances and sitting top of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I just think there's a real nasty streak in some of the big gobs starting our songs away recently. "We've had a shot" ringing out at Leeds towards the end of the first half. How to demoralise your team and give more fuel to the opposition in one easy lesson. I'd like to wish you all the best @Club84. Just keep it positive, about us and you'll have my support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 16 hours ago, angieram said: I just think there's a real nasty streak in some of the big gobs starting our songs away recently. "We've had a shot" ringing out at Leeds towards the end of the first half. How to demoralise your team and give more fuel to the opposition in one easy lesson. I'd like to wish you all the best @Club84. Just keep it positive, about us and you'll have my support. Just to say Angie I thought the support last night at St Marys was excellent. Very positive all the way through. A credit to DCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Just to say Angie I thought the support last night at St Marys was excellent. Very positive all the way through. A credit to DCFC. I agree and it is often the case that when we are down to the "bare bones" of our support the atmosphere, volume and song choices are much better. I can take no credit for last night as I couldn't travel but I was very proud of the noise we made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 16/01/2019 at 07:07, Angry Ram said: Please explain why, in your opinion, team performance bears no relationship to the atmosphere? It does. But it shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 22 hours ago, Waffle said: I’ve often thought about this. We have a lot of sponsors, in Germany and (I hate to say it) even in the States, the tents/facilities/prematch events are better than what we have in England. I’d definitely get to the ground earlier if I knew there was more stuff to get involved with. I do think the tent is a huge step in the right direction I'm a bit confused (not difficult). How would getting to the ground earlier in order to enjoy whatever facilities/events are outside the ground help the match atmosphere? Surely it would just mean fans would spend the extra time outside the stadium and not really taking their seats any earlier. The only way it would help is if there was pre-match activity actually on the pitch/inside the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I'm a bit confused (not difficult). How would getting to the ground earlier in order to enjoy whatever facilities/events are outside the ground help the match atmosphere? Surely it would just mean fans would spend the extra time outside the stadium and not really taking their seats any earlier. The only way it would help is if there was pre-match activity actually on the pitch/inside the stadium. I just like fan parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: I'm a bit confused (not difficult). How would getting to the ground earlier in order to enjoy whatever facilities/events are outside the ground help the match atmosphere? Surely it would just mean fans would spend the extra time outside the stadium and not really taking their seats any earlier. The only way it would help is if there was pre-match activity actually on the pitch/inside the stadium. So Dancing girls then, basically! Bloody Perv! ...Actually, what time would they start, d'ya think? I should be able to make it, if I run instead of walk! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I am old school when it comes to things like this. Making my way to games meeting up with mates in the pubs and standing together at the match. I’m not sure I need anyone organising it for me but if it meant cheap away travel I’m all up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: So Dancing girls then, basically! Bloody Perv! ...Actually, what time would they start, d'ya think? I should be able to make it, if I run instead of walk! ? Guilty as charged I'm afraid. As far as you being able to make it, I'm not sure you being part of the show is quite going to have the desired effect.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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