Racism.

[Smyth_18]

6 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

 people of colour

Would just like to point out that a lot of people find this term offensive in itself.

 

[Anon]

5 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

When racism is discussed as a topic, the views of people of colour are notable by their absence in the comments.

Granted it's possible that there are 500 reading in silence, but it seems unlikely. 

How on earth could you know that? You talk as if everybody of the same race should share the same opinions.

[McRainy]

2 minutes ago, Anon said:

How on earth could you know that? You talk as if everybody of the same race should share the same opinions.

No, I really don't. This discussion is completely asinine. I'll leave you all to it. 

[Mucker1884]

2 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

I don't understand your point. He didn't take an apple, he took a banana. There is a history in football of fans throwing bananas at black players in a form of racial assault. The player who scored happened to be black. If i had a banana skin and planned on discarding of it, that would be the very last place and moment i would consider doing it. Maybe place it under my seat?

I honestly don't know how it could possibly be more racist?

Totally agree with the bold bit.  I'd do exactly the same, if I was the sort of person who took fruit to a match (which I'm not, as I don't each much fruit!).  The same would go for apple cores, bottles and/or bottle tops, sweets, etc, etc.  Indeed, I do "religiously" (That's a turn of phrase, I'm not religious!) place my empty coffee cup under my seat, until I pass the bins at Half time.  It's clear neither of us are into littering or throwing missiles at others!  I'd add into the mix, such items as coins, Season Ticket, mobile 'phone, free scarves/flags etc... but I wouldn't place those under my seat, of course! 

I'm going to make some assumptions here, as I haven't seen any direct reference to the definitive "other items" that were reportedly thrown at the same time, towards the same player...

Did the guy that threw the pound coin take it to throw at an oppo player (of any colour).  Same goes for the guy that threw the bottle top, and the one that threw half a kit kat, and the one that tried to throw his empty crisp packet (Doh!)?

Or was it a case of all the thrown items just happened to be "handy", at a time certain individuals made the ridiculously rash and previously unplanned decision to throw something at the oppo scorer, in their own personal "minute of madness"? 

This was not an isolated incident.  The banana was not the only item thrown.  The thrower was not the only thrower.  Would a carrot thrower automatically be assumed to be vegetarian?  Would a tampon thrower automatically be assumed to be female?  Would a brick thrower automatically be assumed to be a builder?

There is no argument as to all the throwers being idiots, but I still haven't been presented with proof that this particular action has been proven... or admitted... as being a deliberate racist act.  I've still not seen that any of these incidents were pre-planned (either as a hooligan act against any potential oppo scorer, or as a racist act against any potential oppo scorer of colour)!

Of course, we may never know.  We may never know whether it was a deliberate racist act.  We will never know what the reaction would have been if this individual had thrown anything other than a banana.  We will never know whether the exact same people would have thrown the exact same individual items, had the oppo scorer been any other race/colour/creed/ethnicity than the actual scorer.

All I'm doing is trying to get answers to questions.  It appears some on here are stating assumptions as facts.  I'm not aware of the facts, and nobody seems to be giving me any?

You say, and I quote... "He didn't take an apple, he took a banana. There is a history in football of fans throwing bananas at black players in a form of racial assault. The player who scored happened to be black".

I would respond by saying... Even though you know full well that you are not remotely racist, unless you are 100% certain that you will not be drawn into enough anger/frustration/hooliganism that may cause you to throw something, do not take a banana, as if you do throw it, and the subsequent "target" happens to be of colour, you will not only be labelled a yob, but also a racist... proven or otherwise!

 

 

I'm doing my best here, but it's clear some of us are on completely different wavelengths to each other.  This whole "conversation" would be much better suited face to face over drinks, than on a bloody internet page!

[Mucker1884]

20 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

Would just like to point out that a lot of people find this term offensive in itself.

 

Whilst not aimed directly at me, this is also a term I have been using in this thread.

If this is so, could you advise on an acceptable-to-all turn of phrase?

I appreciate we shouldn't be differentiating race and/or skin colour at all, but can you imagine how chaotic* this thread would be, if we just referred to everyone as "people"?

 

 

*As opposed to how smoothly it's running at the moment.

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

I'm doing my best here, but it's clear some of us are on completely different wavelengths to each other.  This whole "conversation" would be much better suited face to face over drinks, than on a bloody internet page!

You say that Mucker, but if we had just been in a pub the Landlord would be on the phone to a local chippy now to see if he could get his front door refitted after Lambchop’s departure.

[Day]

3 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

When racism is discussed as a topic, the views of people of colour are notable by their absence in the comments.

Granted it's possible that there are 500 reading in silence, but it seems unlikely. 

I think you would need to research and understand why some people use this forum, watch football and follow Derby.

It’s possible that some use this forum as an escape from the real world, a place to unwind after work after a chat about Derby and post a picture of their knee whilst out having a drink or close in shot of their duck and chips. Absolutely no interest in discussing anything heavy such as politics or religion.

I bet many of us know people that do vote but can’t be bothered to discuss it with friends or family as it causes arguments, or they are simply to thick to understand (in our opinions).

When we introduced the no politics rule, I’m sure you saw that some were happy as it allowed them to now venture into the off topic area.

Same may apply to issues such as racism, we could have black, mixed race or asian members right now reading this shaking their head and clicking away, not wanting to get involved.

Racism which could effect them in everyday life and this forum is a getaway from that, they would rather be anonymous and discuss how many points Carson has lost us this season where their skin colour is not an issue or silence their opinions.

Or it could just be a case of seeing Lambchop, Stringer, Stiv.....yeah can’t be bothered with this, which I hold my hand up to and leave it to the other moderators I have roped into this!

As I say, it was predictable who would be in this topic, the same group that have held many debates with you that I have seen refuse to apologise for being white males. Just wouldn’t jump to conclusions on the wider audience of the forum over debates with the 5% that engage with you in these topics.

Finally, I would argue that some subjects are better discussed away from keyboards and face to face over a pint, not that I’m asking you out on a date, but text on screen is not always read as intended. Not always easy getting your thoughts down in writing, conscious of the fact you are boring everyone reading with lengthy posts like now.

[Mucker1884]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

You say that Mucker, but if we had just been in a pub the Landlord would be on the phone to a local chippy now to see if he could get his front door refitted after Lambchop’s departure.

Bugger!  For a minute there, I thought he was bringing in some grub, for a lock in!  

[StringerBell]

11 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whilst not aimed directly at me, this is also a term I have been using in this thread.

If this is so, could you advise on an acceptable-to-all turn of phrase?

I appreciate we shouldn't be differentiating race and/or skin colour at all, but can you imagine how chaotic* this thread would be, if we just referred to everyone as people

Id prefer it if people were honest and said white and not white. 'Not white' is what POC means.

[Smyth_18]

16 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whilst not aimed directly at me, this is also a term I have been using in this thread.

If this is so, could you advise on an acceptable-to-all turn of phrase?

I appreciate we shouldn't be differentiating race and/or skin colour at all, but can you imagine how chaotic* this thread would be, if we just referred to everyone as "people"?

 

 

*As opposed to how smoothly it's running at the moment.

I really don't know. It is one big minefield.

I'd rather not have the need in any sense to differentiate people for the colour of their skin. Impossible i know.

The most socially acceptable these days seem to be; Black, white, asian etc..

[Mucker1884]

2 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

Id prefer it...

So I can take that as being "acceptable-to-all" can I, as requested?

I just love the internet.  Thank you so much.

[Mucker1884]

2 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

The most socially acceptable these days seem to be; Black, white, asian etc..

Really?

We were told to stop using that term decades ago! 

I bloody hate the internet.  Too much info for one's own good!

[maxjam]

Just now, Mucker1884 said:

Really?

We were told to stop using that term decades ago! 

I bloody hate the internet.  Too much info for one's own good!

I think leftie's wait until everyone is comfortable with a term then change it suddenly so they can keep hitting people over the head with a big stick ?

[Mucker1884]

17 minutes ago, David said:

Finally, I would argue that some subjects are better discussed away from keyboards and face to face over a pint, not that I’m asking you out on a date, but text on screen is not always read as intended. Not always easy getting your thoughts down in writing, conscious of the fact you are boring everyone reading with lengthy posts like now.

Best paragraph in the whole thread.  Have a likey thing wotsit.  

 

 

Oh... there are no man-hug emojis, will the clap do you?

[Spanish]

Just now, Mucker1884 said:

Best paragraph in the whole thread.  Have a likey thing wotsit.  

 

 

Oh... there are no man-hug emojis, will the clap do you?

your offering him a man hug and clap??

[Mucker1884]

3 minutes ago, Spanish said:

your offering him a man hug and clap??

Better than intruding into someones private conversation!  Get Out!  

[maxjam]

18 minutes ago, David said:

Finally, I would argue that some subjects are better discussed away from keyboards and face to face over a pint, not that I’m asking you out on a date, but text on screen is not always read as intended. Not always easy getting your thoughts down in writing, conscious of the fact you are boring everyone reading with lengthy posts like now.

I think this is a key point - you get a few sentences to get your opinion across which is often not enough to say what you really mean and can be easily misconstrued.  I think we can all agree that racism is a bad thing and is a line in the sand that should never be crossed but where we see racism and how quickly we are to assume someone is racist (or did a racist act in this case) is more open to interpretation and best discussed face to face over a pint.

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Better than intruding into someones private conversation!  Get Out!  

get a (chat) room

[ronnieronalde]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

Better than intruding into someones private conversation!  Get Out!  

I've really enjoyed your take on it and how you've put your views across.

And as it's me saying that, yes you can take that as an acceptable answer across everyone.

Everyone knows I'm the oracle on all such internet matters, apart from Spanish who thinks I'm at least occasionally"chequered" ?

I particularly enjoyed your post with your results on that test.

Argue against that ?

For the record I had a moderate preference to white and I was disgusted with myself. Christ almighty. I know I'm not racist but that test has me unconsciously labelling myself.

I actually love the fact we can have discussions like this. I don't like people spitting their dummies over it even though I can see where that poster is coming from and probably stand in her corner as much as any.

Without heated conversation nothing gets changed. It always starts with one voice.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Smyth_18 said:

So people honestly believe this guy had just finished eating a banana and just happened to discard of it by throwing it on to the pitch, just as a black player scored?

It's blatant.

Regarding racial debate, there is absolutely no difference between white or black, apart from the colour of the skin. It is that simple.

And you honestly believe that he took a banana skin into the ground and waited until a black player scored and threw it at him, knowing that the cameras would be pointed in that direction? 

What about all of the coins thrown? Were they all taken in by white people ready to throw at a black player?