Racism.

[ossieram]

2 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree

https://metro.co.uk/2018/12/02/mum-of-bully-who-waterboarded-syrian-boy-called-chip-shop-owner-a-pi-and-terrorist-8199444/

British journalism at it's best! They've obviously been out to find out how bad the English family are, yet not one report of the death threats they have recieved or how people are threatening to rape his mam and sister even though they are online for all to see. Bullying is wrong, racsism is wrong, but death threats and threats of rape are not worthy of reporting.

[McRainy]

On 03/12/2018 at 19:35, Mucker1884 said:

what sort of person automatically links a banana to a person of colour?  I'm not sure I'd even link the two, unless brainwashed by those of a certain persuasion!

The sort of person who isn't oblivious to the history of racism in football, and the prevalence of banana throwing to taunt black players. 

Of what 'persuasion' are you, to deny that there is a link?

Disgusting post. 

[Mucker1884]

28 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

The sort of person who isn't oblivious to the history of racism in football, and the prevalence of banana throwing to taunt black players. 

Of what 'persuasion' are you, to deny that there is a link?

Disgusting post. 

I'm not sure I did deny the link, more hinted that I was aware of the link due to racists telling and showing me... or at least that was my intention.

Forgive my poor writing skills, as I obviously didn't make the hint clear enough.

As for the history bit, whilst I am of course aware of previous banana throwing incidents, I have absolutely no idea who started it, where, and why a banana was used.  Therefore, I remain ignorant of the link.

I do concede I have never sought the answer, as racism is something that hasn't affected me, nor me it.  I also concede I have very little knowledge of needlecraft, deep sea fishing, and the mating rituals of The Quetzal, much for the same reasons, so again apologies... this time for my clear lack of intelligence.

I won't apologise for making you disgusted though, if that's ok... I guess we all feel like that from time to time, when we make the conscious decision to use the internet.

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Are you joking?

Maybe a little bit ?

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

I'm not sure I did deny the link, more hinted that I was aware of the link due to racists telling and showing me... or at least that was my intention.

Forgive my poor writing skills, as I obviously didn't make the hint clear enough.

As for the history bit, whilst I am of course aware of previous banana throwing incidents, I have absolutely no idea who started it, where, and why a banana was used.  Therefore, I remain ignorant of the link.

I do concede I have never sought the answer, as racism is something that hasn't affected me, nor me it.  I also concede I have very little knowledge of needlecraft, deep sea fishing, and the mating rituals of The Quetzal, much for the same reasons, so again apologies... this time for my clear lack of intelligence.

I won't apologise for making you disgusted though, if that's ok... I guess we all feel like that from time to time, when we make the conscious decision to use the internet.

Don't worry you aren't a fully fledged member if the forum unless you have upset Lambchop at least once.?

[Sith Happens]

2 hours ago, Lambchop said:

The sort of person who isn't oblivious to the history of racism in football, and the prevalence of banana throwing to taunt black players. 

Of what 'persuasion' are you, to deny that there is a link?

Disgusting post. 

Yeah the bloke was stupid. We do seem to label people racist too easily though. 

[Rev]

17 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Yeah the bloke was stupid. We do seem to label people racist too easily though. 

If he'd have thrown it before the penalty, in the hope the player would slip on it and miss, I'd have him pegged as a Norman Wisdom fan.

If a player had slipped on it and conceded a penalty, I'd think of Andre Wisdom, mind.

[McRainy]

15 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

I have absolutely no idea who started it, where, and why a banana was used. 

Are you actually serious? You're either wilfully ignorant or on the wind up.

Banana throwing and monkey noises are aimed at black players to compare them to apes. 

If that doesn't concern you then you're complicit by association. 

[McRainy]

14 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Don't worry you aren't a fully fledged member if the forum unless you have upset Lambchop at least once.?

It's a forum full of white men. Anyone expressing non white men opinions is going to stand out. You're lucky I bother. 

14 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Yeah the bloke was stupid. We do seem to label people racist too easily though. 

On the contrary, we dismiss the prevalence of racism too easily. 

Latest research: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britain?CMP=fb_gu

 

[Ghost of Clough]

15 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

It's a forum full of white men. Anyone expressing non white men opinions is going to stand out. You're lucky I bother. 

On the contrary, we dismiss the prevalence of racism too easily. 

Latest research: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britain?CMP=fb_gu

 

And you know this how?

[Mucker1884]

1 minute ago, Lambchop said:

Are you actually serious? You're either wilfully ignorant or on the wind up.

Banana throwing and monkey noises are aimed at black players to compare them to apes. 

If that doesn't concern you then you're complicit by association. 

Thank you for the explanation... if not the tone of your post. 

Whilst I'm not embarrassed to admit I never knew that (about the bananas) and never thought to link the bananas to monkey noises (Pretty obvious... now you mention it!), I refute any accusation of wind-uppery or indeed the "wilful" part of my ignorance.

I'm afraid I don't know what "complicit" means, so I can't comment on your last sentence.

Whilst I was already aware of the "link" between monkey noises and players of colour, thanks again for showing me where the banana comes in to the equation.  Sometimes my obvious stupidity/ignorance does me no favours at all! 

In my "defence" monkey noises had not been mentioned previously, in this particular thread.  Nor can I recall discussing this subject before (on the internet or in real life), as racism virtually never enters my life (That I'm aware of?) so not my "specialist subject", so to speak.  I may need to consider not doing so again, of course, as I get the impression some "accusations" are being hinted at?

I can only reiterate my apologies for my ignorance on this subject, and my thanks for your teaching.

 

... Now... if I may be so bold...  about this anger of yours (The emoji thing on my previous posts)... are you sure the internet is the place for you?  We're here for you, if you need to talk.

[Dimmu]

I challenge all of you to take for example this one (there are other good ones too):

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/

When it comes to gender and racial equality, most people know what their opinions are. But what about unconscious attitudes and associations? Would you be surprised to learn, for example, that you unconsciously favor one gender or racial group over another?

[McRainy]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

And you know this how?

 

8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

racism virtually never enters my life 

 

[Stive Pesley]

Ugh - I haven't missed this type of thread, and to be honest I'm surprised it's not been pulled

Still the same old same old. What have I learned?

1) it might not have been racist, we're too quick to shout racism these days. Why can't we just wait until the guy has donned a KKK hood and run on the pitch with a knife and attacked a player shouting "I'm singling you out for this knife attack because I am 100% a self-confessed racist".

2) That Syrian refugee being bullied by the kid whose mum is a convicted racist was not really that bad, I mean plenty of people get bullied all the time and it doesn't make the news, so why are we making a fuss? Much better for society to become normalised to it. Then we don't have to think about it at all.

What's wrong with just agreeing that racism and bullying are bad? Why do we have to try and look for excuses?

I'm not going to post in this thread again, humans just disappoint me too much some times

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

 

 

One person says racism isn't part of his life, which automatically makes you think he's white and the forum is full of white men... jumping to conclusions there!

[StringerBell]

46 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

It's a forum full of white men. Anyone expressing non white men opinions is going to stand out. You're lucky I bother. 

On the contrary, we dismiss the prevalence of racism too easily. 

Latest research: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britain?CMP=fb_gu

 

Lectures people about racism (rightly on this occasion) then says there's such a thing as 'white opinions' without an ounce of awareness as to how racist that is. Classic Lambchop.

[McRainy]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

One person says racism isn't part of his life, which automatically makes you think he's white and the forum is full of white men... jumping to conclusions there!

The prevailing attitudes expressed every single time race or gender are mentioned. Plus I live in Derbyshire and I've been to Pride Park. Are you actually saying it isn't the case?

13 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

I'm not going to post in this thread again, humans just disappoint me too much some times

Utterly depressing, isn't it. 

[maxjam]

On 03/12/2018 at 19:35, Mucker1884 said:

"Spurs face FA inquiry after fan throws banana skin at Arsenal’s Aubameyang.

The Arsenal striker had scored the first of his two goals from the penalty spot when he ran to celebrate in front of the travelling supporters. A host of projectiles were thrown at him, with still photography showing that a banana skin was among them.

CCTV footage was used to confirm the identify of the fan who threw it and he was arrested. The Metropolitan Police said afterwards that a total of seven arrests were made – six for public order offences, of which at least two were Arsenal fans who lit smoke canisters during the match.

The FA will investigate and Tottenham released a statement that condemned the supporter who threw the banana skin. “Behaviour such as this is completely unacceptable and the supporter in question will be issued with a ban,” a spokesman said.

It was a fiery game that also featured a mass confrontation between players from both sides, including substitutes, after Eric Dier’s equaliser for 1-1. The Arsenal substitutes who were warming up nearby took exception to how Dier celebrated, with Stephan Lichtsteiner appearing to tap him. Players converged from all angles and projectiles were thrown by the Arsenal fans."

 

So plenty of missiles.  Much disorder amongst both sets of fans, and indeed the players, yet the guy who hits the headlines is the one that just so happened to take a banana for his mid-afternoon snack!  Where's the guy who had loose change to hand?  What about the old fella that spat his teeth on to the pitch?  Half-eaten Burger, anyone?  Apple core?  Pop bottle?  A wet copy of the Radio Times?

Is there any other "evidence" to link this individual to racism?  Chants?  Abusive rants?  Body language?  Anything?  ...Or just his fruit of choice?

It seems the only missiles that cause concern are the one's that have any sort of tenuous link with racism.   I'd love to know how the press would have headlined this, had the goal scorer been "not of colour"... or the fruit lover had preferred a nice juicy peach!   

The halfhearted mention of the other arrests and smoke canisters appears almost to be an afterthought, compared to the headline!

Shouldn't they be seeking each and every other missile thrower, and banning them all... for throwing missiles, full stop? 

 

In fact, I'm tempted to say, what sort of person automatically links a banana to a person of colour?  I'm not sure I'd even link the two, unless brainwashed by those of a certain persuasion!

I think I get your point and its the approach that I like to take myself - one of getting all the facts before we condemn the offence.

We have moved on a lot in both society and football since the days of the first black footballers, banana throwing and monkey chants - to the point that, in the UK at least, this kind of incident makes massive news headlines because they are thankfully becoming increasingly unusual.  I'm not saying that everything is perfect with the world nor that we still have work to do - but is is hardly the 'disaster' for football as was remarked upon by the UEFA President.

Given that almost every team has numerous black players now-a-days, taking a banana to a match with the sole intention of throwing it at a black player strikes me as the height of hypocrisy and stupidity (especially with numerous CCTV at major stadiums) and if the person that threw the banana did it as a racist act then apply the law appropriately - but lets not assume it was a racist act without gathering the facts first and lets not ignore the other coins and missiles, that have the potential to injure and blind whilst we get caught up in the furore over the minority (or in this case, individual).

[StringerBell]

28 minutes ago, Dimmu said:

I challenge all of you to take for example this one (there are other good ones too):

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/

When it comes to gender and racial equality, most people know what their opinions are. But what about unconscious attitudes and associations? Would you be surprised to learn, for example, that you unconsciously favor one gender or racial group over another?

Nope. But what are we going to do about it?

[McRainy]

3 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

Lectures people about racism (rightly on this occasion) then says there's such a thing as 'white opinions' without an ounce of awareness as to how racist that is. Classic Lambchop.

In the sense that white people in this country are often blind to the presence of racism because they don't experience it first hand.

It isn't racist to make that observation, and it's a well documented fact.