Furious Frank

[europia]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

It’s great that he wants to work on getting it right. My only question mark is, what happens if the players never live up to his expectation, and mel’s pockets aren’t bottomless to buy in champions league quality players. Can he handle that? You can come up with the most perfect plan in the world, but if the players just aren’t good enough to enact it, they’ll make you look a tit match after match. 

 

What you are referring to hear is the inherent risk for top players going straight to manage a sizeable club with fan expectations. The championship is a very tough league to cut your teeth, no question about it.  

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete2 said:

well he did lose 4-1 to Germany, mind you should have been 4-2 at most as his goal was disallowed for being too obviously over the line.

I was thinking about that game too. People whistfully say ‘if franks goal had been allowed, it would have been 2-2, could have been a different story then. We were robbed by the ref.’

nah, the only difference is that the score would have been 4-2. Germany were all over us in that game. 

Exactly the same for anyone thinking Mount scoring his chance would have made a significant difference. Leeds were the better team, the only difference is that the score would have been 4-2. 

[sage]

On 12/08/2018 at 07:40, Alpha said:

Lampard comes from a level where 2 wingers don't lose the ball so often while the rest of the team is caught pushing up. 

He comes from a level where a DM can abandon his support role because at those levels the turnover of possession isn't so frequent. 

What he's asking our team to do would need players to be more reliable on the ball, visualise more of the play and not do what Wilson did for one of the goals yesterday. 

Lawrence and Wilson sent Leeds on numerous attacks while Lowe and Ledley were out of position! He wants the midfield to keep rotating and moving but our defence can't do much with the ball. 

I think you see with Tomori the sort of tactical problem we have with our defenders. Look how clever and calm he is on the ball. You can afford Ledley to go breaking shape when you have someone like that. You've got Bryson dropping in but Bryson has always always always played the way he's facing. He never changes direction of play. So him coming deep means you're going to get nice little lay offs in our own half. 40 yards up the pitch he is reliable in applying pressure. If you can turn him around then he's pretty good in attack. But in our half? Useless. Tomori has more creativity than Bryson. 

This is what you should expect. Naivety. He's a rookie manager building a new team with ideas that don't always become a reality. 

I also thought Wisdom was rubbish. In possession he adds nothing at all. Nothing. His defending for the Roofe header... is he even awake? Is there a reason why he likes teams to cross the ball so easily. 

It will take time. You don't get a rookie manager and make so many changes if you want instant performances and results. I mean what we are doing worked in pre season. We've come into the season and the faster pace, higher pressing, riskier tackling, pressure to find a result... It has surprised us. This is how you learn.  

Thank goodness for that, I thought it was just me.

 

[Alph]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Thank goodness for that, I thought it was just me.

 

Nah, if I'd had a air rifle then Lawrence and Wilson would be in massive trouble. Infuriating. Still think they're in a playground with their mates trying to get the ball off them. On the positive side there's no chance either will pick up injuries. 

Immaculate hair though. 

[chelloram]

12 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

I’ve seen a lot of posts on here asking for a new dm, but not seen Evans play, so can’t comment, but we definitely need a new dm. 

This has to be a dcfcfans record, we’re essentially looking for a replacement before a player has even played a game. 

How about we let Evan’s have a game before we decide he isn’t the answer, and we need someone else?

We have the answer to our defensive midfield problem already here and he would make the rest of the attackers tick too with his incisive passing. I fear he's half way out of the door already though, even though he's a different class to Ledley and Johnson?. Franky, the player you need is right under your nose, George Thorne is that man?.

 

[Edtheram]

He still doesn't look like hes calmed down in his Oldham preview especially when Gibson asks him about the Leeds game.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Edtheram said:

He still doesn't look like hes calmed down in his Oldham preview especially when Gibson asks him about the Leeds game.

Yeah, doesn't look like he's enjoying the interviews now.

[cheron85]

4 hours ago, chelloram said:

We have the answer to our defensive midfield problem already here and he would make the rest of the attackers tick too with his incisive passing. I fear he's half way out of the door already though, even though he's a different class to Ledley and Johnson?. Franky, the player you need is right under your nose, George Thorne is that man?.

1) Yes please

2) Only if Frank stops this stupid rotating midfield thing and plays them in the position they're actually best in

[TigerTedd]

33 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

1) Yes please

2) Only if Frank stops this stupid rotating midfield thing and plays them in the position they're actually best in

I wonder if that’s a tactic designed to out fox opposition midfielders and keep them guessing? 

If so, it’s probably a really smart idea for champions league level football, where the midfielders are world class ad you’ve got to get up early in the morning to out fox them. 

So kudos to frank for coming up with the idea. 

But at this level, you don’t really need to do clever things like that to confuse your opponents. You’re just as likely to confuse your own players. 

I hope this is a lesson that frank is starting to learn. Keep it simple stupid. 

[cannable]

33 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I wonder if that’s a tactic designed to out fox opposition midfielders and keep them guessing? 

If so, it’s probably a really smart idea for champions league level football, where the midfielders are world class ad you’ve got to get up early in the morning to out fox them. 

So kudos to frank for coming up with the idea. 

But at this level, you don’t really need to do clever things like that to confuse your opponents. You’re just as likely to confuse your own players. 

I hope this is a lesson that frank is starting to learn. Keep it simple stupid. 

There are simpler ways of doing it. Blackpool would be set up as a 2-1, with Vaughan and Southern deep and Adam in the hole. If Adam wasn’t in the game they would alternate, Adam would drop deep and the other two would play more advanced, making a 1-2.

Fulham would do the opposite, starting as a 1-2 and switching to a 2-1 with McDonald pushing up and Johanssen and Cairney dropping deep.

Even ourselves under Mac, if the DM was being marked out of the game then Hughes would drop deep and control from just in front of Keogh. 

It doesn’t have to be this über complicated constant rotation, it can be a predetermined tactical switch.

[SaintRam]

3 hours ago, Alpha said:

Yeah, doesn't look like he's enjoying the interviews now.

You don't want a manager to be smirking and joking after any loss, let alone a loss like that.

I'd also be concerned if he'd looked like he was completely over it already, after what? two days training?

 

He'll be enjoying the interviews again when he gets things going, no doubt.

[mwram1973]

36 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I wonder if that’s a tactic designed to out fox opposition midfielders and keep them guessing? 

If so, it’s probably a really smart idea for champions league level football, where the midfielders are world class ad you’ve got to get up early in the morning to out fox them. 

So kudos to frank for coming up with the idea. 

But at this level, you don’t really need to do clever things like that to confuse your opponents. You’re just as likely to confuse your own players. 

I hope this is a lesson that frank is starting to learn. Keep it simple stupid. 

Just because it's not working at the moment doesn't mean it wont come the end of the season. The players have got to have time to learn different Philosophies and tactics, this will take time. 

I for one will give him time and I expect some bumps and poor performances along the way, but it's obvious what he's trying to do and we have to give him time and the new players, even if it takes all season. 

I realise the 16 year old experts want us to play like real madrid straight off the bat and will start calling for franks head after a couple of months if we aren't top 2, but the more sensible supporters I think will give him & the players time.

[mwram1973]

10 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

You don't want a manager to be smirking and joking after any loss, let alone a loss like that.

I'd also be concerned if he'd looked like he was completely over it already, after what? two days training?

 

He'll be enjoying the interviews again when he gets things going, no doubt.

yeah, you can tell his demeanour has changed and I like it, you can tell he's still smarting from that performance and I think the players have been told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't good enough.

I like it tbh. Snake would have been cracking jokes with "col"

[Alph]

45 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

You don't want a manager to be smirking and joking after any loss, let alone a loss like that.

I'd also be concerned if he'd looked like he was completely over it already, after what? two days training?

 

He'll be enjoying the interviews again when he gets things going, no doubt.

Yeah, just made me laugh tbh. 

There was a question from the media that was something like "Do you think Oldham will be motivated by the fact that Frank Lampard is against them"

You could tell he wanted to say that he doesn't care. It's irrelevant and where he took these questions in a light hearted way before I think he finds it tedious at the moment that he get asks things like "Are you angry?" And "Coming off the back of your playing career.." kind of stuff.

I wasn't criticising. It just made me laugh.

[Nuwtfly]

7 hours ago, Alpha said:

Nah, if I'd had a air rifle then Lawrence and Wilson would be in massive trouble. Infuriating. Still think they're in a playground with their mates trying to get the ball off them. On the positive side there's no chance either will pick up injuries. 

Immaculate hair though. 

Wilson has played two league games for us so far. Two. Deserves a little more time before gunning him down, don't you think?

Lawrence is making some of the same mistakes he made last year, but at least he's trying to be positive. He's one of the only players over the last two games who have actually made things happen, or have gotten bums off seats. Two goals in two games. 

Starting to wonder if Lawrence and Wilson were maybe in the backs-seat when you got cut up by Wisdom the other week!

[cannable]

51 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Just because it's not working at the moment doesn't mean it wont come the end of the season. The players have got to have time to learn different Philosophies and tactics, this will take time. 

I for one will give him time and I expect some bumps and poor performances along the way, but it's obvious what he's trying to do and we have to give him time and the new players, even if it takes all season. 

I realise the 16 year old experts want us to play like real madrid straight off the bat and will start calling for franks head after a couple of months if we aren't top 2, but the more sensible supporters I think will give him & the players time.

The problem with the midfield flexibility is that it needs a DM who can push up and has energy and it needs a #8 who can drop deep and instigate play. The timings might get better throughout the season but it still needs different personnel. 

Bryson is the one constantly dropping deep even though he’s nothing more than neat and tidy. Hughes would have been perfect for this role, Butters is the closest we have but he isn’t energetic enough to press. 

Hopefully Evans can be the DM. 

[SaintRam]

13 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Yeah, just made me laugh tbh. 

There was a question from the media that was something like "Do you think Oldham will be motivated by the fact that Frank Lampard is against them"

You could tell he wanted to say that he doesn't care. It's irrelevant and where he took these questions in a light hearted way before I think he finds it tedious at the moment that he get asks things like "Are you angry?" And "Coming off the back of your playing career.." kind of stuff.

I wasn't criticising. It just made me laugh.

I didn't read it as you were criticising, I just wanted to further your point rather than repeat it.

I feel like he's going to tell someone to duck off (or a variant thereof) when they ask him a question in comparison to his playing career. Possibly before christmas ? 

[Alph]

1 minute ago, Nuwtfly said:

Wilson has played two league games for us so far. Two. Deserves a little more time before gunning him down, don't you think?

Lawrence is making some of the same mistakes he made last year, but at least he's trying to be positive. He's one of the only players over the last two games who have actually made things happen, or have gotten bums off seats. Two goals in two games. 

Starting to wonder if Lawrence and Wilson were maybe in the backs-seat when you got cut up by Wisdom the other week!

I've not written Wilson off mate. I'm saying he's been poor so far and infuriating. If it makes everyone feel better I could say he's played really well and is just a tad unlucky that he's tackled all the time and that those poor bits of play have left us stretched and exposed.

You see Lawrence trying to be positive. I see it as being selfish and greedy. 

Like I said the other day, 2 goals in 2 games may be the only stat that matters to some people but I'm more about how many chances we haven't created, how many goals we haven't scored and how many attacks the opposition have sprung because he refuses to pass to a teammate unless he's ran out of road. He only passes when he's in trouble. 

You seem to think I have a problem with certain players? I haven't. I care/don't care about all of them the same. 

But if I can see players putting themselves before the team then I care. Because I follow Derby and not Tom Lawrence or Andre Wisdom.

I was never a big Russell fan but I always admired that when he was playing badly he would graft. Even if he couldn't make a single pass he would make sure he did the graft.

Lowe got battered on Saturday and not a winger in sight. Wisdom was sat admiring crosses and if you look at the game again you will see for the 3rd time this season he's lost a header in our box because he's stood on the ground trying to push someone. Not only did Lawrence dodge tackles and avoid graft but he also exposed Lowe when he lost the ball trying to be Ronaldo.

I'll be honest I've also had a grump on for a few weeks. I don't think I've had a single day off from work in nearly 2 months and my next day off is September 23rd. So when Tom Lawrence fluffs a corner I would love to take a massive pooh on his Range Rover bonnet 

[Edtheram]

20 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I've not written Wilson off mate. I'm saying he's been poor so far and infuriating. If it makes everyone feel better I could say he's played really well and is just a tad unlucky that he's tackled all the time and that those poor bits of play have left us stretched and exposed.

You see Lawrence trying to be positive. I see it as being selfish and greedy. 

Like I said the other day, 2 goals in 2 games may be the only stat that matters to some people but I'm more about how many chances we haven't created, how many goals we haven't scored and how many attacks the opposition have sprung because he refuses to pass to a teammate unless he's ran out of road. He only passes when he's in trouble. 

You seem to think I have a problem with certain players? I haven't. I care/don't care about all of them the same. 

But if I can see players putting themselves before the team then I care. Because I follow Derby and not Tom Lawrence or Andre Wisdom.

I was never a big Russell fan but I always admired that when he was playing badly he would graft. Even if he couldn't make a single pass he would make sure he did the graft.

Lowe got battered on Saturday and not a winger in sight. Wisdom was sat admiring crosses and if you look at the game again you will see for the 3rd time this season he's lost a header in our box because he's stood on the ground trying to push someone. Not only did Lawrence dodge tackles and avoid graft but he also exposed Lowe when he lost the ball trying to be Ronaldo.

I'll be honest I've also had a grump on for a few weeks. I don't think I've had a single day off from work in nearly 2 months and my next day off is September 23rd. So when Tom Lawrence fluffs a corner I would love to take a massive pooh on his Range Rover bonnet 

Ronaldo plays in a selfish way and scores 40 goals a season- whats wrong with Lawrence trying it. didn't Lowe lose the ball for the first goal?

Stop defending Lowe, his defending is woeful and will rightfully make way for Malone.

People moaned last season that Lawrence didn't do enough or score enough goals - 2 in 2 and people moan jheeez lets get Weimann back and watch that hard working headless chicken run about.....

 

 

 

[Nuwtfly]

19 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I've not written Wilson off mate. I'm saying he's been poor so far and infuriating. If it makes everyone feel better I could say he's played really well and is just a tad unlucky that he's tackled all the time and that those poor bits of play have left us stretched and exposed.

You see Lawrence trying to be positive. I see it as being selfish and greedy. 

Like I said the other day, 2 goals in 2 games may be the only stat that matters to some people but I'm more about how many chances we haven't created, how many goals we haven't scored and how many attacks the opposition have sprung because he refuses to pass to a teammate unless he's ran out of road. He only passes when he's in trouble. 

You seem to think I have a problem with certain players? I haven't. I care/don't care about all of them the same. 

But if I can see players putting themselves before the team then I care. Because I follow Derby and not Tom Lawrence or Andre Wisdom.

I was never a big Russell fan but I always admired that when he was playing badly he would graft. Even if he couldn't make a single pass he would make sure he did the graft.

Lowe got battered on Saturday and not a winger in sight. Wisdom was sat admiring crosses and if you look at the game again you will see for the 3rd time this season he's lost a header in our box because he's stood on the ground trying to push someone. Not only did Lawrence dodge tackles and avoid graft but he also exposed Lowe when he lost the ball trying to be Ronaldo.

I'll be honest I've also had a grump on for a few weeks. I don't think I've had a single day off from work in nearly 2 months and my next day off is September 23rd. So when Tom Lawrence fluffs a corner I would love to take a massive pooh on his Range Rover bonnet 

All fair points. I can't really argue with anyone and, to be honest, I don't really want to.

The bit I've put in bold is why.

I don't think either of us are right or wrong on this. Just maybe choosing to look at the same room through two different windows. 

I personally think, from what I've seen enough from the two games so far, that come the end of the season, we will both be looking back at Lawrence and Wilson as two very good players who have had two positive seasons.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't think you have a problem with those players. I've just not really ever known you to call out individuals as often as you have been lately, especially Wisdom.