kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Am I just being obsessive or what, but to me that sounds like you're describing Chris Martin? You are.... We clearly need to change Martin's last name to something more international (martinio being slightly too obvious) and trendy sounding then pay £8 million for him. The new messiah could then be born without his usual detractors (at least for a few weeks) Hopefully Gary's reading this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: You are.... We clearly need to change Martin's last name to something more international (martinio being slightly too obvious) and trendy sounding then pay £8 million for him. The new messiah could then be born without his usual detractors (at least for a few weeks) Martinez? Martinal? Martini? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: You are.... We clearly need to change Martin's last name to something more international (martinio being slightly too obvious) and trendy sounding then pay £8 million for him. The new messiah could then be born without his usual detractors (at least for a few weeks) Hopefully Gary's reading this ? Wardrobski? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said: Wardrobski? Class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 For a change it seems like Tom Lawrence is getting away with it here. The last time i checked he had the numbers 1 and 0 on his back. Unless i've been taught differently from a very young age i'm pretty sure that makes 10. In all seriousness, there is no set role for a number on a players back. This season Vydra has been given a specific role and he has excelled. Other players will also have their own set roles by GR and have let him down, that's the problem. Apologies for singling out but Lawrence was brought in to be a catalyst, make something out of nothing, be Ince's 'high quality replacement'. Add to this the strikers. Nugent has had more than enough chances to be on 10+. Winnall was fantastic and his injury unfortunate. Jerome needs a bit of time to adjust. Martin never did adjust from his one style. You MUST be adaptable. Looking even further into it the defence have decided it's that time of the season they can give up again. I reserved judgement on Keogh for the majority of the season for that exact reason. No good being the best defender in the league if you can't sustain it when it really matters. Davies has been as bad. We was desperate for a LB at the start of the season and this is showing even more so now. Wisdom has failed to impress me in general since re-signing, a lot of the time he seems more interested in nailing somebody than doing something a bit more productive. Baird has been absolutely fantastic but even he was drawn into our self destruct tactics in his last game. All it takes though is 2 wins to turn this around. A couple of goals for Lawrence against Forest. A couple for Jerome too and we're back in business. Keep your heads up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Am I just being obsessive or what, but to me that sounds like you're describing Chris Martin? He's absolutely an example of a player doing the basics required of his position (holding the ball up, linking the play, creating space etc), with the goals being a nice bonus (the exact opposite of Vydra). But personally I don't think he's quite the right player to play in the hole in a 4231. A big part of his game is pulling centre-halves around and creating spaces for players running beyond him, which he can't do if he's 20 yards deeper. He's also not a "get his head up, pick out a pass" type, his link-up work is all quick flicks and layoffs, which works if he's the focal-point with players making runs beyond him, but not if he's sat in behind all of the runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: Martinez? Martinal? Martini? Wardrobini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: Martinez? Martinal? Martini? Shaken not stirred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 There’s more than one way to play 10 just like there’s more than one way to play as a striker or play as a winger. So I don’t think Vydra’s the problem because he’s clearly the best aspect of this teams attack. Saying we should get rid of him in the summer because his style is a problem right now is a complete overreaction and will hurt us in the future. You don’t just throw away a 20 goal a season striker. We should be looking to sign players to accommodate him and cover his shortcomings as a 10, something we haven’t had the chance to do yet. So many of our issues in our formation/system throughout the team right now are simply due to money and time constraints. Rowett hasn’t had time to sign players to cover the weaknesses of a lot of our players, so he’s abandoned some of the issues throughout the team to make us competitive now. Easiest example is Huddlestone. Huddlestone is a great player, good creator from deep but he’s really immobile. Neither Ledley or Thorne cover that weakness, because it’s also their weakness. We tried to sign Kieftenbeld who would have masked that weakness but we all know what happened there, so we’re stuck with Ledley. I don’t think this team reflects Rowett’s overall tactical vision but rather him getting the best out of what he’s currently got. Which brings me on to Vydra. He’s not a classic playmaker, so we need someone like a Kieftenbeld or the constantly mentioned Ryan Woods from Brentford to come forward from DM to help him out. If we were able to do that, having someone who can act as a classic playmaker despite being played as a 9 in Chris Martin would make more sense than it did this season. Martin’s unplayable when he has a dynamic goal scorer playing close to him and balls into feet. With a few adjustments we can accommodate that. A fluid 9 and 10 relationship where Vydra and the 9 could switch between positions is the way to incorporate short passing into our game, right now we’re playing balls into the space behind the defense (inefficently) because we can’t string together passes. Having both our DM’s so far away doesn’t help either. Rowett went from saying that January would be a big window for us in September (most likely to shape this team into something more similar to what’s mentioned above) to only needing some tweaking because we had unexpected amount of success with the limited midfield and attack we had because of a stout defense and clinical Vydra. I think he had other plans but stumbled across this style. He was right to buy into it in January because it had us in 2nd but we’ve really seen it’s flaws now. It needs adjusting, not throwing away. If we fall short this season, trust the process. It doesn’t always click into place instantly, sometimes it takes time. We’ve seen with plenty of teams that go close one season unexpectedly (Brighton and Boro recently) and then crack it the next year. Let them improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 My vote would be Chris Martini. Scores anytime, any place, anywhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said: Words fail me....keep ya best players me thinks and get rid of those not performing is the best way forward.... We’ve already got rid of our best players, what’s left are square pegs and round holes. Full circle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 hours ago, duncanjwitham said: But he's not supposed to be the one making those runs - with the way a 4231 normally works, he should be the playing passes through for the other 3 to run onto. You could tweak the structure a bit if you wanted (play a creative player as a wider one, or play a target man go direct to him to layoff, for example), but you can't have the case where all 4 of the forwards are trying to make runs, and none of them are trying to thread passes through, which is what we've been doing all season. This!!! Vydra is brilliant. A fantastic goal scorer and dangerous. We need him in the side currently. He isn’t however a number 10 and all of you ‘formations and systems don’t matter’ merchants need to leave the past behind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 We have not played through the thirds all season, we have relied on Hudds and whoever is next to him to play inch perfect through balls which will never work all the time, Vyds has started dropping deeper recently but this is to the detriment of him scoring goals and he is not a provider someone like a Jota or even Lawrence or Palmer would be better in that role but that then leaves us to find a position for Vyds who is still a good player, for me it would be a false 9 i think they call it where he plays up top but drops slightly deeper to pick it up leaving the ten role for someone more creative.....Hopefully GR knows what he's doing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 bump - lots of posters posting things very similar to my OP in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Actually nugent, winnall, jerome and martin have got a fair few between them (14 is it) considering they were all competing for one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Vydra is not a number 10 no matter how many goals he has scored this season. He doesn’t have the intelligence to play in that position. He got away with it at Watford because deeney did all of his work for him and he had 3 midfielders behind him to help the front 3 of Deeney, Vydra and Ighalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: bump - lots of posters posting things very similar to my OP in this thread I agree entirely, been saying it all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, McLovin said: Vydra is not a number 10 no matter how many goals he has scored this season. He doesn’t have the intelligence to play in that position. He got away with it at Watford because deeney did all of his work for him and he had 3 midfielders behind him to help the front 3 of Deeney, Vydra and Ighalo. I sort of agree and I sort of don't. I think playing in that #10 space is where he is at his most dangerous; either make runs from deep or running at defenders at getting of a shot from the edge of the area. But he lacks the creativity of a traditional #10. The best way I can describe it is if a false 9 is somebody who starts high and drops deep to get on the ball, Vydra is a false 10 i.e. a player who starts deep but bursts forward to get on the end of balls. In my mind you ideally pair him with a creative physical striker like Deeney (or Martin) or play a systems that has another creative attacking player in a similar position e.g. playing a 343 where two of the forward three are tucked in behind the central striker. I think in the current set up this effect could be alleviated by playing Palmer in one of the three behind the striker with a lot of freedom to roam around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, brady1993 said: I sort of agree and I sort of don't. I think playing in that #10 space is where he is at his most dangerous; either make runs from deep or running at defenders at getting of a shot from the edge of the area. But he lacks the creativity of a traditional #10. The best way I can describe it is if a false 9 is somebody who starts high and drops deep to get on the ball, Vydra is a false 10 i.e. a player who starts deep but bursts forward to get on the end of balls. In my mind you ideally pair him with a creative physical striker like Deeney (or Martin) or play a systems that has another creative attacking player in a similar position e.g. playing a 343 where two of the forward three are tucked in behind the central striker. At the moment we are playing a 6-0-4 formation. You might get lucky against Preston if they manage to miss a penalty, but it's no formula for going up, and playing it against decent teams like Wolves and Fulham, giving up total control of the midfield to the opposition, they're going to score against you sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I sort of agree and I sort of don't. I think playing in that #10 space is where he is at his most dangerous; either make runs from deep or running at defenders at getting of a shot from the edge of the area. But he lacks the creativity of a traditional #10. The best way I can describe it is if a false 9 is somebody who starts high and drops deep to get on the ball, Vydra is a false 10 i.e. a player who starts deep but bursts forward to get on the end of balls. In my mind you ideally pair him with a creative physical striker like Deeney (or Martin) or play a systems that has another creative attacking player in a similar position e.g. playing a 343 where two of the forward three are tucked in behind the central striker. I think in the current set up this effect could be alleviated by playing Palmer in one of the three behind the striker with a lot of freedom to roam around. Yeh I think he’d be fine in a 3-4-3 but even then, I’d feel that we would be overrun in midfield against the better sides because we don’t have anyone in the midfield with an engine. I think he’d be fine in a diamond formation as a number 10 or as a second striker too but we don’t have the legs in midfield nor the full backs currently Carson new Keogh Davies new Huddlestone new new Lawrence Martin Vydra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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