IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 He’s skilful and determined when running at players and he clearly knows where the back of the net is but for me a number 10’s key role is to be picking it up between the lines and creating. I don’t think Vydra has the speed of thought for the role he’s being asked to play and I think the number of goals he’s scored this season has masked this. I would look at moving him on in the summer when his stock is high after a goal heavy season. I would look at bringing in Palmer for the 10 role and spending the money on a new striker and a new winger (if we were to continue with 4231 6 defensive players bore fest). Until the end of the season I would play a 433 as I believe we have decent personnel for it. Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth ..................Ledley or Thorne ...........Palmer and Huddlestone Vydra...................................Lawrence ................Jerome I just can’t for the life of me see things improving in terms of creativity with such a static midfield. (For those suggesting we’ve scored lots of goals, our expected goals stat, which I know isn’t the be all, has been consistently low meaning we’ve been clinical not creative. We’ve scored more than expected based on the chances created) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Rowett s not opposed to 433 as we saw at the back end of last year but clearly prefers 4231 which personally with our current personnel so do I . Don't get me wrong I think 433 is one of the most entertaining and effective formations to use in football but you have to have the correct players for it to work. Going back over old ground but if you want to play 433 you need a Martin style striker who's happy to play with his back towards goal none of current strikers fit that role. Vydra proved he struggled when played out wife but could be worth exploring again I suppose . It would probably suit Lawrence better as he would have more room to drive in from the left and the Palmer thing I could definitely see working. Again you need full backs who are good at over lapping which would rule Fozzy and Wisdom out because both are poor going forward. Anya would be more suited to the role along with Ollson . If the 4231 continues to be nullified and innefective it could be worth trying again but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 This is obviously a joke isn't it? Got to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 That makes my eyes bleed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 When Palmer came on yesterday he looked bright but was largely doing the same as what Vydra had been all game (especially first half), which was running at their back 4 only to pass the ball straight to Odoi or Ream (who tbf were both fantastic). Both fantastic players and tbh I don’t see huge issues with Palmer playing as one of the CM’s especially at home. We shouldn’t need two defensive bodies there really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsonram12 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I agree a change in formation is needed, I think vydra due to his amount of goals Is being marked more now, we need to move on from a defensive 4-2-3-1 to a more attack minded 4-3-3 and just go for it in the final 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: Fully agree with a lot of this and it was a similar point with Ince last season. It’s not that they are poor players but they play as individuals in their movements ie, they move into the positions which help them get a chance at goal rather than a position that helps the man on the ball. That’s fine, when it’s going well but say a game like yesterday when you need to ‘graft’ and battle to ‘earn your right’ to play then they go missing or jog around, being mardy and don’t look interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Vydra is our only threat and therefore quite easy to deal with but looking at what we are left with I think a straitforward 442 formation would be best use of our resources- if we are winning we can easily drop back into the current mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Vydra is our only threat and therefore quite easy to deal with but looking at what we are left with I think a straitforward 442 formation would be best use of our resources- if we are winning we can easily drop back into the current mode Yes I think you are right 4-4-2 would allow us to use Jerome's pace At the moment were getting next to nothing from him Can't really see Rowett. playing 4-3-3 that would mean admitting he is wrong to let Martin go on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 This sort of thread is the reason I normally stay away from here for a few days after a defeat. See you all again in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Actively looking to sell him would be a ridiculous decision, he's our most talented player. If a big bid comes in then fair enough, but if not why sell? I get the point about the goals not being shared though. When we get the ball we almost always try to give it to Vydra whenever possible. It sometimes seems as if the rest of the team has no confidence in themselves/other teammates to create apart from Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Mistaram said: Yes I think you are right 4-4-2 would allow us to use Jerome's pace At the moment were getting next to nothing from him Can't really see Rowett. playing 4-3-3 that would mean admitting he is wrong to let Martin go on loan I tend to think in reality we have been playing four up front which is why we never have the ball in midfield and Huddlestone has to hit it from 40 yards away hoping that someone gets on the end of it ( Russell used to make the correct runs to get a chance to get it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 hour ago, ossieram said: This sort of thread is the reason I normally stay away from here for a few days after a defeat. See you all again in a few days. What a thread which doesn’t criticise the player but rather picks up on something I’ve been thinking for a while? I’ve complemented him on numerous occasions in the original post alone but rather than come back with any sort of counter argument it’s probablt better to make a snide remark for a few cheap likes... I’m glad you commented and added to a post which attempted to debate why we’re so reliant on one player for goals. 1 hour ago, Kernow said: Actively looking to sell him would be a ridiculous decision, he's our most talented player. If a big bid comes in then fair enough, but if not why sell? I get the point about the goals not being shared though. When we get the ball we almost always try to give it to Vydra whenever possible. It sometimes seems as if the rest of the team has no confidence in themselves/other teammates to create apart from Vydra. He’s a player who’s market value is too high to not be playing but also a player I feel isn’t a number 10 and is being shoe horned in due to his obvious talent. Either play 442 or find players that fit the formation you want to play, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Tombo said: This is obviously a joke isn't it? Got to be What part isn’t true? He is incredibly talented at scoring goals but he’s not nearly creative enough to be a natural number 10. Also Palmer when he came on showed that he can move the ball forward with ease. Huddlestone would be more dangerous if he knew he had cover behind him and wasn’t chasing the oppositions number 10 all game. We really don’t have the attacking players available to prosper in a 4231. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Millenniumram said: That makes my eyes bleed Add something to the debate rather than making an unfunny snide remark. Tell me why what I’ve written is wrong, counter it with your opinions. It’s a forum after all. We’re meant to disagree but these comments add jack **** to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Beyond daft ,,,, the simple truth is he has played far better than anybody else up front this season and outshone the rest ,the answer is that others need to raise their game or be replaced not to sell the one stand out player ,if he was a goal hanging poacher then I could perhaps consider it but he works like a Trojan defensively and creates for other on top of his scoring ,, but hey ho let’s sell our best performing player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, archied said: Beyond daft ,,,, the simple truth is he has played far better than anybody else up front this season and outshone the rest ,the answer is that others need to raise their game or be replaced not to sell the one stand out player ,if he was a goal hanging poacher then I could perhaps consider it but he works like a Trojan defensively and creates for other on top of his scoring ,, but hey ho let’s sell our best performing player The others need to raise their game? Surely there’s more to it than that... for players to need to raise their game for so long either the system isn’t working or they’re not good enough? Find a system to play him in that doesn’t require him to be the most creative player on the team then that’s fine! But the fact is a number 10 should create more for others han he does. There’s no argument about his ability, he’s a great goal scorer but lacks when creating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 36 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: The others need to raise their game? Surely there’s more to it than that... for players to need to raise their game for so long either the system isn’t working or they’re not good enough? Find a system to play him in that doesn’t require him to be the most creative player on the team then that’s fine! But the fact is a number 10 should create more for others han he does. There’s no argument about his ability, he’s a great goal scorer but lacks when creating. Who of the front players creates more? Lawrence possibly,,, I see vydra put others through on goal with great passes plenty that they then mess up with poor finishing otherwise his assists tally would be right up there with his goals tally so it don’t really matter how much he does beyond his goals as there is not another consistent finisher in his prime in the team/squad ,, vydra has not amassed his goal tally because he is a greedy player it’s because he has been deadly with his finishing but as I say get rid and all the others will suddenly turn into world beaters err not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 1 minute ago, archied said: Who of the front players creates more? Lawrence possibly,,, I see vydra put others through on goal with great passes plenty that they then mess up with poor finishing otherwise his assists tally would be right up there with his goals tally so it don’t really matter how much he does beyond his goals as there is not another consistent finisher in his prime in the team/squad ,, vydra has not amassed his goal tally because he is a greedy player it’s because he has been deadly with his finishing but as I say get rid and all the others will suddenly turn into world beaters err not Nobody and that’s the problem, for our most creative player he needs to be creating more. Currently he’s behind Huddlestone for creating chances in my opinion and huddlestone plays 20 yards behind him! I’m not criticising him as a player I just think he’s being asked too much. Our most deadly finisher needs to be concerned more with getting on the end of chances than creating but he can’t if he’s playing the 10 role. I didn’t say get rid and the others would improve but put someone more creative there and others will contribute more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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