The FA adopt the Rooney Rule for all future appointments

[Norman]

3 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Higher crime rates associated with living in poverty + more likely to be arrested + more likely to be convicted and sentenced + less likely to be able to change their circumstances through education and social mobility. 

I work in the least socially mobile place in the country - Newark. Bet you didn't know that little fact.

[McRainy]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

I work in the least socially mobile place in the country - Newark. Bet you didn't know that little fact.

I didn’t know it was Newark specifically, but I knew Lincolnshire was bad in general. 

[Norman]

Just now, Lambchop said:

I didn’t know it was Newark specifically, but I knew Lincolnshire was bad in general. 

Newark, Nottinghamshire.

[McRainy]

Just now, Lambchop said:

I didn’t know it was Newark specifically, but I knew Lincolnshire was bad in general. 

Didn’t know Newark was in Nottinghamshire though! ?

[Wolfie20]

1 minute ago, Norman said:

Newark, Nottinghamshire.

Probably not a geography teacher then?

[alexxxxx]

3 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

The point for me really is that we now have a 26 page thread arguing whether or not racial inequality exists in Britain, despite the evidence being so overwhelming that even this Conservative government feels the need to address it. 

Pointing to the problems associated with the ghettoisation of BME people, lower wages and aspirations, poorer health, higher crime rates, doesn’t answer the question of why certain sectors of our community are perennially trapped in those circumstances in the first place.

Allusions to innate biological differences, propensities to criminality and a lack of personal  responsibility are disingenuous at best and racist at worst. 

I completely agree with this post. BME people are more likely to fare worse than white people on average. I think people seem to deny the commonality between classism and racism. White working classes are prejudged and discriminated against (in different ways) and have social and economic problems.

If the country can do better to improve class cohesion, then we will have a society where all can achieve their potential. I think that there is a denial that different groups have different issues to face - with BME people it is conscious and unconscious racism in general, asian groups it is to do with role of women in society and with white working class there are separate issues relating to educational attainment (amongst others). Different problems need different solutions, but they all should aim to achieve the same goal.

[McRainy]

15 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Different problems need different solutions, but they all should aim to achieve the same goal

Absolutely. One of the most destructive things is the way the white working class have been manipulated into blaming immigrants for their problems, instead of realising that both have a common cause against the inequality deliberately inflicted by the government. Divide and conquer. 

[G STAR RAM]

30 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Higher crime rates associated with living in poverty + more likely to be arrested + more likely to be convicted and sentenced + less likely to be able to change their circumstances through education and social mobility. 

But that goes completely against the statement made that they are no more likely to be criminal? 

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Absolutely. One of the most destructive things is the way the white working class have been manipulated into blaming immigrants for their problems, instead of realising that both have a common cause against the inequality deliberately inflicted by the government. Divide and conquer. 

At the most basic of levels. But you're doing white working classes a disservice. 

I could give you multiple financial reasons why they'd be right.

Just look at the circle on the Brexit thread.

There's a good article linked by a brillant poster about echo chambers and left-wing teachers 

[Alph]

I still don't see the overwhelming evidence of racism.

People say it like it's a fact.

"Yeah so the white salary is xx but the minority is xx"

It's over 90% white country!! If 10,15, 20% of the white people in this country earn xx amount then obviously the white average will be higher than the minority. 

Where you see racism to keep people in poverty I see immigration and a opportunity barrier that exists to keep the whites there too.

Every stat has wealth social class argumwnt that can just as easily work at racism.

Yet we assume the facts are there for racism. 

So we are all accidental racists. The police, the prisons, the mayor of London, the royal family, the FA and Alan Sugar.

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I still don't see the overwhelming evidence of racism.

People say it like it's a fact.

"Yeah so the white salary is xx but the minority is xx"

It's over 90% white country!! If 10,15, 20% of the white people in this country earn xx amount then obviously the white average will be higher than the minority. 

Where you see racism to keep people in poverty I see immigration and a opportunity barrier that exists to keep the whites there too.

Every stat has wealth social class argumwnt that can just as easily work at racism.

Yet we assume the facts are there for racism. 

So we are all accidental racists. The police, the prisons, the mayor of London, the royal family, the FA and Alan Sugar.

That's not how averages work though.

[McRainy]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But that goes completely against the statement made that they are no more likely to be criminal? 

No it doesn’t, unless you assume biologically innate criminality, for which there is no evidence.

If the same number of blacks and whites are committing crimes but more blacks are arrested and they are more likely to be convicted too, then you have your stats. 

[McRainy]

14 minutes ago, Norman said:

I could give you multiple financial reasons why they'd be right.

Just look at the circle on the Brexit thread

I agree that immigrant labour undercuts the wages of resident workers, but that’s a situation deliberately created by corporations influencing government policy to their benefit. I’d still argue it was best addressed by understanding the common cause for immigrant and resident workers alike. 

The EU being a vehicle for corporate interests is one of the main reasons I oppose it. 

[StringerBell]

29 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Absolutely. One of the most destructive things is the way the white working class have been manipulated into blaming immigrants for their problems, instead of realising that both have a common cause against the inequality deliberately inflicted by the government. Divide and conquer. 

I agree. Tell me more about the patriarchy.

[Norman]

9 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

I agree that immigrant labour undercuts the wages of resident workers, but that’s a situation deliberately created by corporations influencing government policy to their benefit. I’d still argue it was best addressed by understanding the common cause for immigrant and resident workers alike. 

The EU being a vehicle for corporate interests is one of the main reasons I oppose it. 

Wage compression being one, yes. But there are many more. And I get the feeling you don't think many of the white working classes have the intelligence to comprehend them. You're wrong.

[McRainy]

23 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Every stat has wealth social class argumwnt that can just as easily work at racism.

Yet we assume the facts are there for racism. 

So we are all accidental racists.

I don’t know why you’re assuming it has to be class OR race, it’s both. 

We may not be individually racially prejudiced ourselves, but we all benefit from white privilege, whether we seek that or not. That’s why I don’t think it’s enough to just not be racist yourself and why I actively support anti racist measures which attempt to redress the balance. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/white-people-solution-problem-munroe-bergdorf-racist

[McRainy]

30 minutes ago, Norman said:

Wage compression being one, yes. But there are many more. And I get the feeling you don't think many of the white working classes have the intelligence to comprehend them. You're wrong.

It’s not a matter of intelligence is it, it’s class consciousness; being aware that your best interests are likely to be achieved in solidarity with other oppressed groups. 

[Norman]

2 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

It’s not a matter of intelligence is it, it’s class consciousness; being aware that your best interests are likely to be achieved in solidarity with other oppressed groups. 

And I agree. But immigration to the levels they have been has meant the quality of life of all working class people has become worse. Sort of how socialism works though.

[G STAR RAM]

54 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

No it doesn’t, unless you assume biologically innate criminality, for which there is no evidence.

If the same number of blacks and whites are committing crimes but more blacks are arrested and they are more likely to be convicted too, then you have your stats. 

Basically then we are never going to have the stats to prove one way or the other (although of course if it was the other way round it would be being used to support the argument!)

If we need this amount of detail regarding crime stats then surely we should be demanding the same level of information before deciding if we think the Rooney Rule is really necessary in football?

[McRainy]

11 minutes ago, Norman said:

And I agree. But immigration to the levels they have been has meant the quality of life of all working class people has become worse. Sort of how socialism works though.

Freedom of movement isn’t a product of socialism, it’s a product of EU corporatism. At least a socialist government would provide adequate infrastructure, education, health and housing to cope. Again, I think you’re blaming the wrong people.