The FA adopt the Rooney Rule for all future appointments

[GboroRam]

24 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Police 6 times more likely to stop and search a black person than a white person, 2016. I don’t think it’s black people who are getting the benefit of the doubt. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/27/police-satisfied-with-stop-and-search-reform-despite-racial-inequality

Pfft, 2016. Ages ago. I presume it has all been sorted out by now.

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Why didn't you say earlier? That settles it for me. We'v also disproved the link between smoking and cancer in this thread.

Data says otherwise. Where's the data to answer your questions?

If you haven't got it, how are you making your conclusions and displaying them as fact?

[McRainy]

28 minutes ago, Norman said:

However, people from black and minority ethnic (BME) groups as a whole were almost three times more likely to be stopped than white people.'

Only 3 times more likely to be stopped and searched nationally if you’re BME? So how many times more likely is too many, exactly? Yes, the overall use of stop and search has been reduced, but proportionally BME groups are still excessively targeted. 

I’m not clear what point you’re trying to make. You clearly don’t like it being demonstrated that institutional racism is still a significant problem, yet you don’t provide any evidence that it isn’t, apart from accusing me of sharing an echo chamber with the Conservative Home Secretary. As for the statistics, they speak for themselves. 

If you believe racism isn’t a problem, then provide convincing contrary evidence and explanation to back your view, or PEE off. 

[Norman]

10 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Only 3 times more likely to stopped and searched nationally if you’re BME? So how many times more likely is too many, exactly? Yes, the overall use of stop and search has been reduced, but proportionally BME groups are still excessively targeted. 

I’m not ckear what point you’re trying to make. You clearly don’t like it being demonstrated that institutional racism is still a significant problem, yet you don’t provide any evidence that it isn’t, apart from accusing me of sharing an echo chamber with the Conservative Home Secretary. As for the statistics, they speak for themselves. 

If you believe racism isn’t a problem, then provide convincing contrary evidence and explanation to back your view, or PEE off. 

You have evidence suggesting it 6 times.

The same data actually makes it LESS than three.

I am terribly sorry for pointing that out. 

If you're giving evidence, make sure you've read it first. I know the kids probably don't challenge you much, or you don't let them, but no need to tell me to pee off for challenging your stats.

You're using data to say the Police are racist.

I'm using the data to determine whether or not they are targetting the right people, and if so, what can we do as a society to change that.

Interestingly, the one piece of data missing is the bit about convictions from stop and gos. It gives the percentage as 16% overall. Wonder why it omitted the conviction percentage of each ethnicity?

And, yes, it would appear the Home Secretary and the Shadow Home Secretary have something in common. They can't do basic calculations.

 

[McRainy]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

You have evidence suggesting it 6 times.

The same data actually makes it LESS than three.

I am terribly sorry for pointing that out. 

6 times more likely if you’re black in London, 3 times more likely for all BME groups nationally. 

Can you tell me why you find ANY disparity between the treatment of black and white people acceptable?

[StringerBell]

Some crimes are disproportionately carried out by certain ethnicities.

Stop and search is primarily to stop violent crime. Perpetrators of such crimes are disproportionately black. Because they are targeted? But the victims are also disproportionately black which suggests it is something that happens with more regularity in some communities than in others.

Now unless police are blacking up and stabbing people to skew statistics this suggests that knife crime and therefore stop and search and arrests are going to be affecting black people disproportionately. The best thing to do to combat this is for people to take responsibility for their own actions and spread positivity in their communities, not to blame others for their ‘oppression’ and ‘systemic’ ‘racism’.

[Norman]

26 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

6 times more likely if you’re black in London, 3 times more likely for all BME groups nationally. 

Can you tell me why you find ANY disparity between the treatment of black and white people acceptable?

"Official figures showed that those from black and minority ethnic (BME) groups were three times as likely to be stopped and searched as those who are white in 2015/16. Black people were over six times more likely to be stopped."

Independant.

But you still have to factor in the percentage of stop and gos in London, compared to nationally, and the percentages of the population where they are carried out. Which the report doesn't do.

If you want data to suggest Police racism, then maybe look into the data in Liverpool. That would help your argument. 

I look at the data differently to you. You go in with an agenda. I'm looking at why it happens. But I can't find enough data.

So i'm out. It's pretty pointless from here.

[McRainy]

3 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

Perpetrators of such crimes are disproportionately black.

Do you have stats for that, or any explanation for why you think it’s so?

[Norman]

7 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Do you have stats for that, or any explanation for why you think it’s so?

Because the poorer London boroughs have a higher black percentage. And the poorest ares are linked to the most crime. Especially violent. They are intrinsically linked.

[McRainy]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

Because the poorer London boroughs have a higher black percentage. And the poorest ares are linked to the most crime. Especially violent. They are intrinsically linked.

Here’s one that indicates disproportionate use of Section 60 actually occurs more outside London. 

Section 60 is the power to stop and search when there is no suspicion of a link to a crime. According to this from 2012, only 2.8% of these searches lead to an arrest, and fewer than 1 in 5 of these arrests were for offensive weapons. This suggests that racial profiling is not only discriminatory, it is less effective than intelligence led police work. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/12/police-stop-and-search-black-people

The point of all this, in the context of this thread, is that it shows negative assumptions are made about black people, which will inevitably affect their chances of being employed, as well as being arrested. This means, as has been said all along, that black coaches are not operating on a level playing field. I think that is beyond dispute, personally. 

[eddie]

2 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Here’s one that indicates disproportionate use of Section 60 actually occurs more outside London. 

Section 60 is the power to stop and search when there is no suspicion of a link to a crime. According to this from 2012, only 2.8% of these searches lead to an arrest, and fewer than 1 in 5 of these arrests were for offensive weapons. This suggests that racial profiling is not only discriminatory, it is less effective than intelligence led police work. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/12/police-stop-and-search-black-people

The point of all this, in the context of this thread, is that it shows negative assumptions are made about black people, which will inevitably affect their chances of being employed, as well as being arrested. This means, as has been said all along, that black coaches are not operating on a level playing field. I think that is beyond dispute, personally. 

Oxymoron alert...

[Norman]

Just now, Lambchop said:

Here’s one that indicates disproportionate use of Section 60 actually occurs more outside London. 

Section 60 is the power to stop and search when there is no suspicion of a link to a crime. According to this from 2012, only 2.8% of these searches lead to an arrest, and fewer than 1 in 5 of these arrests were for offensive weapons. This suggests that racial profiling is not only discriminatory, it is less effective than intelligence led police work. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/12/police-stop-and-search-black-people

The point of all this, in the context of this thread, is that it shows negative assumptions are made about black people, which will inevitably affect their chances of being employed, as well as being arrested. This means, as has been said all along, that black coaches are not operating on a level playing field. I think that is beyond dispute, personally. 

Circles.

[McRainy]

4 minutes ago, Norman said:

Circles.

Yup. 

[StringerBell]

55 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

Do you have stats for that, or any explanation for why you think it’s so?

Probably biology innit.

Did Norman link to this already? I’m a bit busy so can’t read too much.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ethnic-minorities-crime-victims-perpetrators-uk-race-report-a7993521.html

Anyway, I’ll let you carry on with your crusade to get police out of black communities and into white communities making things worse for black people and better for white people.

[McRainy]

10 minutes ago, StringerBell said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ethnic-minorities-crime-victims-perpetrators-uk-race-report-a7993521.html

From your link:

In a damning indictment of racial inequality in Britain, the report reveals widely varying outcomes in areas including education, employment, health and criminal justice between Britain’s white and ethnic minority populations.

“The reason there are racist disparities is there’s this prevalent perception that black people are more criminal. We need to talk about this and challenge that because all the research shows that black people are not more criminal.”

[StringerBell]

7 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

From your link:

In a damning indictment of racial inequality in Britain, the report reveals widely varying outcomes in areas including education, employment, health and criminal justice between Britain’s white and ethnic minority populations.

“The reason there are racist disparities is there’s this prevalent perception that black people are more criminal. We need to talk about this and challenge that because all the research shows that black people are not more criminal.”

Yes. I disagree. It’s amazing the lengths people will go to to avoid saying anything controversial, even interpreting their own research strangely. I’ll draw my own conclusions that seem plausible.

Why are black people more likely to be victims of violent crime? White people going to other parts of town to do in people they don’t even know?

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Why didn't you say earlier? That settles it for me. We'v also disproved the link between smoking and cancer in this thread.

The type of response I expected. Well done.

[G STAR RAM]

34 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

"The reason there are racist disparities is there’s this prevalent perception that black people are more criminal. We need to talk about this and challenge that because all the research shows that black people are not more criminal.”

OK, so for the purpose of this exercise, let's assume this paragraph is factual.

So what is the explanation for them making up 3% of the general population yet 12% of the prison population?

[McRainy]

The point for me really is that we now have a 26 page thread arguing whether or not racial inequality exists in Britain, despite the evidence being so overwhelming that even this Conservative government feels the need to address it. 

Pointing to the problems associated with the ghettoisation of BME people, lower wages and aspirations, poorer health, higher crime rates, doesn’t answer the question of why certain sectors of our community are perennially trapped in those circumstances in the first place.

Allusions to innate biological differences, propensities to criminality and a lack of personal  responsibility are disingenuous at best and racist at worst. 

[McRainy]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So what is the explanation for them making up 3% of the general population yet 12% of the prison population?

Higher crime rates associated with living in poverty + more likely to be arrested + more likely to be convicted and sentenced + less likely to be able to change their circumstances through education and social mobility.