Derby County F.C. v Sheffield United F.C.

[Angry Ram]

24 minutes ago, archied said:

Players have to train , they don’t have to play in dead rubber games when they are vital hardest to replace player in the team that’s in the play offs ,, don’t want to punish wassell for ever but to be fair it was his biggest mistake ,, schoolboy error

Was it his biggest mistake? Why?

Tactics cost is the 1at game against Hull, the 2nd was probably our best game of the season. How does Thorne missing have anything to do with those games?

Its like a myth. People create folklore and convince themselves that with Thorne we would have got promoted. All I can say for sure that imo him missing was not the problem. 

 

[PodgeyRam]

1 minute ago, Angry Ram said:

Was it his biggest mistake? Why?

Tactics cost is the 1at game against Hull, the 2nd was probably our best game of the season. How does Thorne missing have anything to do with those games?

Its like a myth. People create folklore and convince themselves that with Thorne we would have got promoted. All I can say for sure that imo him missing was not the problem. 

 

Wassall's only mistake was listening to Redknapp's  advice before the first leg of the play-off. Redknapp told him to play long balls in the hope that it would unsettle their players, obviously completely oblivious to the fact we tore them apart by playing the ball on the ground in both league games that season. Triffic management Harry.

[archied]

5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Was it his biggest mistake? Why?

Tactics cost is the 1at game against Hull, the 2nd was probably our best game of the season. How does Thorne missing have anything to do with those games?

Its like a myth. People create folklore and convince themselves that with Thorne we would have got promoted. All I can say for sure that imo him missing was not the problem. 

 

Thorne being missing may have contributed to the change in tactics? ,, like you I don’t believe Thorne will/ would have got us promoted on his own myth but given he was over a period of time an important player for us and perhaps the player we had the least good cover for I believe playing him  and some others in a dead rubber against a team very well known for its take no prisoners physical approach was just daft , course that’s just an opinion and in no way do I believe that if we had followed that course things would have been certain to turn out differently 

[LeedsCityRam]

Not sure whether it was tiredness or nerves that contributed to yesterday's showing. Even before our goal, I still felt Sheff Utd were edging the game & we were pretty terrible second half - particularly in possession. They can consider themselves very unlucky not to have beaten us. 

I'm also unsure of the wisdom of picking the midfield we did against Sheff Utd's usual 5 man midfield. To compete with less players in the centre of the park, you need folk who can keep hold of the ball and/or press the space relentlessly. In Bradley Johnson, we had someone who did neither. 

That all said, we didn't lose even when playing that badly against a good side. Just frustrating to think we could have been 4 points clear in 2nd had we held on!! 

 

[PodgeyRam]

44 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Not sure whether it was tiredness or nerves that contributed to yesterday's showing. Even before our goal, I still felt Sheff Utd were edging the game & we were pretty terrible second half - particularly in possession. They can consider themselves very unlucky not to have beaten us. 

I'm also unsure of the wisdom of picking the midfield we did against Sheff Utd's usual 5 man midfield. To compete with less players in the centre of the park, you need folk who can keep hold of the ball and/or press the space relentlessly. In Bradley Johnson, we had someone who did neither. 

That all said, we didn't lose even when playing that badly against a good side. Just frustrating to think we could have been 4 points clear in 2nd had we held on!! 

 

It says a lot about how well organised we are and how solidly defensively we are these days that even though we were completely dominated for most of the match they only had one clear cut opportunity (which they scored from). 

Interesting seeing on the Sheffield United forums that they're complaining the highlight didn't show many of their chances. Saying that sky are biased against them.

The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have many chances. A shot from Donaldson in the first half that Carson would expect to save. A shot that dribbled wide from Fleck (I think?). And the goal. Other than that we kept them at arms length. They were better than Aston Villa, but Millwall created more chances and better chances against us.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

6 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Just to put some stats to this;

About a third of our goals (13) have come from midfield. 

Vydra has 14, and when you add the other strikers with goals (Nugent, Winnall and Martin) between them they have 27.

Just the one goal from defense, they should step it up.

 

6 assists from the strikers.

16 assists from midfield.

6 assists from defense (including 3 for Keogh).

 

 

Crikey...Which midfielders have scored the 13 goals this season?

[RamNut]

Quote

Pair were named on the bench as Gary Rowett made four change to the team that beat Ipwich Town

That's a sentance from the DET.

no full stop.

Ipwich?

four change

 

[SaintRam]

26 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Crikey...Which midfielders have scored the 13 goals this season?

Johnson: 4

Russell: 3

Weimann: 2

Lawrence: 2

Ledley: 1

Bryson: 1


To be completely fair, the fluid nature of the "front 4 " to "front 2" makes the definition of 'Midfielder' and 'Forward' debatable, but I personally put all of these in midfield.

[Ellafella]

7 hours ago, Srg said:

Pretty poor from us.

Don't think Sheff Utd are anything special, but they seemed to play up for it and they had a system which countered ours. Disappointingly, Rowett did literally nothing to try and change it.

They played two lumps up top, and got bodies round them for every second ball, and played from there. Made the pitch into mini five-a-side games all over the place, so seemed to out number us in practically every area, and when we closed it out they switched to opposite full-back. Credit to them, with that personnel, it absolutely works and I'm just disappointed Rowett did nothing about it.

Game showed we need another creative player. I'd class Russell and Weimann as similar "kick and rush" type wingers who you can't expect to take the ball under control in a tight area, turn and carry the ball forward. So without Lawrence, and when Vydra went off, we had absolutely no hope of getting forward. Not entirely sure how Nugent remained on the pitch as long as he did, but again, wasn't a good afternoon for Rowett.

Referee was quite appalling throughout, not that is an excuse though.

On a positive note, we got a valuable point when we were second best on a day where two of our closest competitors dropped points. Also thought Curtis Davies had a very good game.

Very good points made. They embarrassed us in our own back yard. Why did GR look like a rabbit in headlights when it was patent that we needed to change things. 

[Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Johnson: 4

Russell: 3

Weimann: 2

Lawrence: 2

Ledley: 1

Bryson: 1


To be completely fair, the fluid nature of the "front 4 " to "front 2" makes the definition of 'Midfielder' and 'Forward' debatable, but I personally put all of these in midfield.

Not being picky but if we count the league cup Russell has one more and Bennett has one, it would be nice if Lawrence finds his Ipswich end of season goal scoring form 

[Ellafella]

2 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

Wassall's only mistake was listening to Redknapp's  advice before the first leg of the play-off. Redknapp told him to play long balls in the hope that it would unsettle their players, obviously completely oblivious to the fact we tore them apart by playing the ball on the ground in both league games that season. Triffic management Harry.

Spot on. Oh how many people have stolen a livin' from football? 

[Sparkle]

8 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Johnson: 4

Russell: 3

Weimann: 2

Lawrence: 2

Ledley: 1

Bryson: 1


To be completely fair, the fluid nature of the "front 4 " to "front 2" makes the definition of 'Midfielder' and 'Forward' debatable, but I personally put all of these in midfield.

Do you have the list of assists out off interest? As those players seldom get the credit they deserve

[Ninos]

4 hours ago, nottingram said:

I remember when Wassall gave continuity and momentum a go, and was then blamed for Thorne’s leg snapping and us not being promoted (not necessarily by you obviously)

Whatever Rowett does will be wrong in the eyes of some

It’s a wee bit different. It was me and the game you’re referring to had practically no significance at all except securing who played the home leg of two last. I’m still angry he risked Thorne.  While Hull rested their players we threw out an ACL recovered GT who had busted his guts in the prior match and GT only knows to play the game at high intensity. That call was a very bad call and cost us in the big playoff match. This is quite a bit different. It’s Manchester United in the cup and we don’t have a premier league promotion playoff game sitting around the corner do we? 

The Wassall game should have been played with a skeleton side whereas I agree with @Angry Ramwe should field our strongest team at Man U ... no doubt our best players will all want to play there too. It’s a big match by the nature of the opposition and the cup that it’s in. 

[Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, Ninos said:

It’s a wee bit different. It was me and the game you’re referring to had practically no significance at all except securing who played the home leg of two last. I’m still angry he risked Thorne.  While Hull rested their players we threw out an ACL recovered GT who had busted his guts in the prior match and GT only knows to play the game at high intensity. That call was a very bad call and cost us in the big playoff match. This is quite a bit different. It’s Manchester United in the cup and we don’t have a premier league promotion playoff game sitting around the corner do we? 

The Wassall game should have been played with a skeleton side whereas I agree with @Angry Ramwe should field our strongest team at Man U ... no doubt our best players will all want to play there too. It’s a big match by the nature of the opposition and the cup that it’s in. 

Yep resting the whole first choice X1 that day would have been fine and it wouldn’t have affected a thing in the league ( unlike Huddersfield at Birmingham last season) 

[SaintRam]

51 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Do you have the list of assists out off interest? As those players seldom get the credit they deserve

Lawrence: 5

Weimann: 4

Johnson: 4

Vydra: 3

Keogh: 3

Nugent: 2

Russell: 2

Wisdom: 1

Baird: 1

Forsyth: 1

Ledley: 1

Winnall: 1

 

Assists.

[Sith Happens]

8 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Yep resting the whole first choice X1 that day would have been fine and it wouldn’t have affected a thing in the league ( unlike Huddersfield at Birmingham last season) 

Of course had he done so and we got hammered, then we got hammered by Hull people would have been jumping up and down complaining he should have kept his strongest team playing. 

Very difficult decisions to make.

I personally felt it was the right decision as we weren't totally clicking as a team and the more game time they had together the better.

I am more angry with the thug Ipswich player who went in studs up in a nothing game, and the ref for missing it and not punishing him with an instant red.

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

Lawrence: 5

Weimann: 4

Johnson: 4

Vydra: 3

Keogh: 3

Nugent: 2

Russell: 2

Wisdom: 1

Baird: 1

Forsyth: 1

Ledley: 1

Winnall: 1

 

Assists.

Love how Keogh has more assists than Russell.

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

It says a lot about how well organised we are and how solidly defensively we are these days that even though we were completely dominated for most of the match they only had one clear cut opportunity (which they scored from). 

Interesting seeing on the Sheffield United forums that they're complaining the highlight didn't show many of their chances. Saying that sky are biased against them.

The simple fact of the matter is that they didn't have many chances. A shot from Donaldson in the first half that Carson would expect to save. A shot that dribbled wide from Fleck (I think?). And the goal. Other than that we kept them at arms length. They were better than Aston Villa, but Millwall created more chances and better chances against us.

That's fair comment - they had a lot of the play but not that many clear cut chances (can only remember the shot that flew just wide that went through about 3 players in second half). As you rightly say, it reflects on how secure we are at the back - well, apart from the hideous defending for their goal!

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, Ellafella said:

Spot on. Oh how many people have stolen a livin' from football? 

Best not mention "stolen" around 'arry. Not with that tax advising dog of his. He'll have you in court....

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Johnson: 4

Russell: 3

Weimann: 2

Lawrence: 2

Ledley: 1

Bryson: 1


To be completely fair, the fluid nature of the "front 4 " to "front 2" makes the definition of 'Midfielder' and 'Forward' debatable, but I personally put all of these in midfield.

Out of those,I'm only having ledley,Bryson and Johnson as the midfield,the rest are forwards.....

As such,our midfield aren't contributing as much as previously.