Is keeping the same team right when tired

[TuffLuff]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

Wasn’t hindsight I know he gets fatigue after games more than others IMO. 

He has  been great for us no doubt about it but why flog him. 

I’m on your side!!!

[Wolfie]

18 minutes ago, curtains said:

Mate you are missing the point. Why flog players when we have a big squad. Unbelievable that we can’t wait to offload players in January for FFP 

But you're making the assumption that we are deliberately playing someone knowing they're not fit. Yes it's a big squad but when Vyds & Nugent play so well toegther in a winning team, you need a good reason not to continue with that. I'll say it again, player and manager must have thought he was up to it before the game.

20 minutes ago, curtains said:

Wasn’t hindsight I know he gets fatigue after games more than others IMO. 

He has  been great for us no doubt about it but why flog him. 

So do you know he gets more fatigue than others or know that it's your opinion that he does?

[Smyth_18]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

Yes I went to Middlesbrough and it was a tough game.  I couldn’t believe Gary started the same starting 11. 

Luke Thomas needs a chance on the bench as what’s the use of the U23s 

No need for Pearce at home as Huddlestone as we saw can play CB as can Baird. 

Hard to say Huddlestone can play CB from 5 mins of purely attacking the other team. He isn't a CB anymore at all.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

But you're making the assumption that we are deliberately playing someone knowing they're not fit. Yes it's a big squad but when Vyds & Nugent play so well toegther in a winning team, you need a good reason not to continue with that. I'll say it again, player and manager must have thought he was up to it before the game.

So do you know he gets more fatigue than others or know that it's your opinion that he does?

I’ve seen it with my own eyes. 

But he is clearly very fit and has good recovery time but my point remains he wasn’t st the races last night and got subbed. Maybe Gary saw it. 

[mrdave85]

No manager will ever make the right decision 100% of the time, hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

We could have won 5-0, Nuge could have bagged all 5. We'll never know because what actually happened was we conceded early and I imagine GR's plan went right up in smoke. 

IMHO I would keep a winning side together wherever possible, some games don't go our way, but from what I saw last night 9 times out of 10 things would have fallen for us, last night was 1/10. 

[Curtains]

9 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

No manager will ever make the right decision 100% of the time, hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

We could have won 5-0, Nuge could have bagged all 5. We'll never know because what actually happened was we conceded early and I imagine GR's plan went right up in smoke. 

IMHO I would keep a winning side together wherever possible, some games don't go our way, but from what I saw last night 9 times out of 10 things would have fallen for us, last night was 1/10. 

That’s just wrong you don’t keep a winning side together whatever. 

Players like Roy Mac and Henry Newton and Phil Waller all suffered by being overplayed and possibly having injections just as Phil Jones had to to play for England recently and that can’t be right. 

[mrdave85]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

That’s just wrong you don’t keep a winning side together whatever. 

Players like Roy Mac and Henry Newton and Phil Waller all suffered by being overplayed and possibly having injections just as Phil Jones had to to play for England recently and that can’t be right. 

If you read what I put I actually wrote:

 

Quote

IMHO I would keep a winning side together wherever possible

I don't expect players to play every minute of every game, if they really needed resting etc I would. I don't appreciate you dismissing my opinion as "wrong" because it differs to yours. 

[Mistaram]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

Yes I went to Middlesbrough and it was a tough game.  I couldn’t believe Gary started the same starting 11. 

Luke Thomas needs a chance on the bench as what’s the use of the U23s 

No need for Pearce at home as Huddlestone as we saw can play CB as can Baird. 

Curtains your right I went toBoro it was tough but a manager can't win half say don't change a winners side the other half no better than the manager Agree about Thomas anyone who watches the under23s knows this lad is special he is good enough to unlock packed defences

[Curtains]

17 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

If you read what I put I actually wrote:

 

I don't expect players to play every minute of every game, if they really needed resting etc I would. I don't appreciate you dismissing my opinion as "wrong" because it differs to yours. 

So you said wherever possible. How does that work.  Does that mean players with niggles playing to keep a small compact squad.  

 

[DRBee]

4 hours ago, Ninos said:

Unfortunate not to score?

We did not score against a useless team - that’s the bottom line ! 

Dude go back and watch the Boro game and you’ll see Nugent played a major part in EVERY Vydra goal. The problem yesterday wasn’t Nugent-Vydra it was the rest of it : Fozzy was typically sketchy ultimately costing us one goal and then got bailed out by RK after a worse blunder that should have led to another, and many others were very very wasteful in possession.

The one that looked knackered to me was Lawrence. A Thorne (for Hudd) and Russell (for Lawrence) substitution at halftime prob would have resolved matters - martin when all was said and done had 45 mins and he didn’t set up a goal or come close to scoring one. When in recent memory has he helped get us a key goal to affect a game? You can’t just keep ignoring his constant lack of actual game impact. The one thing working has been Vydra-Nugent so I wouldn’t mess with it.

The wrong decision turned out to be bringing Martin on because with him we failed in the objective: to score a goal or two. And if Winnall was fit, it’s him you would have seen come in. Why? Cuz he scores goals. These are strikers you’re talking about.

Take you have analysed what Johnnie Russell did when he came on .... headless chicken running around unfortunately. 

Perhaps it was not Nugent that was at fault but the tactics and our lack of players who can do something special when faced with such a defensive, time-wasting team. Changing Nugent for Martin on its own was never going to change much. 

But of course you are simply pedalling your anti-Martin agenda. You need to think a bit more widely. It wasn't cos Nugent was tired that we got so bogged down in our own half in the first 45 mins  .. there were no options to pass to and when forwards made a run Huddlestone et  al didn't spot the run or over hit the ball.

[Ninos]

9 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Take you have analysed what Johnnie Russell did when he came on .... headless chicken running around unfortunately. 

Perhaps it was not Nugent that was at fault but the tactics and our lack of players who can do something special when faced with such a defensive, time-wasting team. Changing Nugent for Martin on its own was never going to change much. 

But of course you are simply pedalling your anti-Martin agenda. You need to think a bit more widely. It wasn't cos Nugent was tired that we got so bogged down in our own half in the first 45 mins  .. there were no options to pass to and when forwards made a run Huddlestone et  al didn't spot the run or over hit the ball.

Isn’t the last paragraph essentially my point. The forwards may have been off the boil but the problem was the garbage happening at the back and with Hudds ... but changing Nugent for Martin was a silly swap as @Angry Ram quickly pointed out during the game !

[GadFly]

6 hours ago, curtains said:

Doesn’t Gary assess the players fitness wise on the Monday after the Saturday win. 

Probably, although maybe not personally. He no doubt gets fitness assessments from his coaches though, at the least. 

My point still stands. If he'd changed the team after beating Boro 3-0 away, even if it was based on fitness concerns for some of the players involved, and we'd gone one to lose to Ipswich anyway, then you'd have people exclaiming that "you don't change a winning team". 

[Curtains]

10 minutes ago, GadFly said:

Probably, although maybe not personally. He no doubt gets fitness assessments from his coaches though, at the least. 

My point still stands. If he'd changed the team after beating Boro 3-0 away, even if it was based on fitness concerns for some of the players involved, and we'd gone one to lose to Ipswich anyway, then you'd have people exclaiming that "you don't change a winning team". 

True but Gary has to be stronger than that.

He is the manager and he knows what he’s doing and he even said after the game he got it wrong. 

He has my respect does Gary but  it doesn’t mean i can’t say what I feel about certain decisions.

Not saying I’m right it’s just my opinion. 

[AdamRam]

I’m not sure starting Martin is going to be the answer unless you give him a run of games, for me he will never perform as a bit part player as his fitness levels seem to drop when not playing regularly.  We are going to continue to struggle at home until rowett adapts the way we play when teams come in and sit against us.

He needs to find a way of breaking teams down, and I’m not sure that playing the 2 holding midfielders that he uses at present is the answer.  I also think that not playing Wisdom is a big mistake, I’m not sure his frame of mind but if he is ok to be in the bench then you should play your best players and therefore as he gives more than CB he should be starting.

He talks about fatigue and have to swap players or formations yet he doesn’t do it, I still believe he is a reactive rather than a proactive manager and we could be in danger of becoming a NC mark 2 side.

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, jimbobram said:

Start Martin on sat. One Nuge needs a rest and 2 Martin is too good to be on the bench week in week out.

Would that be Steve Martin, the man with two brains?

And, why has everybody started talking about fatigue and being fatigued? What's wrong with good old tired? 

[Comrade 86]

7 hours ago, GadFly said:

Can't win. If the team and had been changed and we'd still lost, you'd have people moaning that "you don't change a winning team". 

Actually you can win. Change the side (if needs be) or don't, then win the game and everyone calls you a genius.

 

 

 

 

Until you next mess up.....

[RodleyRam]

4 hours ago, Ninos said:

So what you’re saying is :

Martin and Vydra have big footballing brains and Nugent has a smaller footballing brain which therefore means two big footballing brains link better together in home games.

And what about goals, is that connected to big footballing brains or can small brained players like Nugent do that? I didn’t see any goals from the big football brains together at home yesterday, did you ?

Some very profound logic there though.. lol

Haha Ninos.

You manage to be both tedious and hilarious at once. It's actually quite impressive or it would be if it wasn't quite so boring. 

You seek attention more than my Mrs though which is quite the feat.

[Brammie Steve]

Cloughie never accepted tiredness as a reason to change the make up of his teams.

He just insisted on 100% effort!

It worked for him.

He said his greatest achievement was winning the league with 12 men.

'And they still can't work out how we did it!'

BTW we may need to get used to negative, defend a slender lead at all costs, football. At least 16 teams play it week in week out in the Prem.??

[Ninos]

25 minutes ago, RodleyRam said:

Haha Ninos.

You manage to be both tedious and hilarious at once. It's actually quite impressive or it would be if it wasn't quite so boring. 

You seek attention more than my Mrs though which is quite the feat.

That’s not what your Mrs told me ...  

[RodleyRam]

5 minutes ago, Ninos said:

That’s not what your Mrs told me ...  

Ooo do you know her? Small world! Tell her I said hi