Is keeping the same team right when tired

[Curtains]

Nugent looked way off last night. 

[Wolfie]

....or is it right to break up a winning team?.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Isn't hindsight wonderful.

[Curtains]

Just now, Wolfie said:

....or is it right to break up a winning team?.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Isn't hindsight wonderful.

We didn’t deserve to lose last night but Nugent  was clearly tired out and Gary made the wrong call IMO on him. 

Derby much better 2nd half with Martin. 

[GadFly]

Can't win. If the team and had been changed and we'd still lost, you'd have people moaning that "you don't change a winning team". 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, GadFly said:

Can't win. If the team and had been changed and we'd still lost, you'd have people moaning that "you don't change a winning team". 

Doesn’t Gary assess the players fitness wise on the Monday after the Saturday win. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

46 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

....or is it right to break up a winning team?.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Isn't hindsight wonderful.

To be fair,plenty were concerned about them playing four games in a short space of time....Gary himself according to his post match interview....he knows he made the wrong call but for the right reasons.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

To be fair,plenty were concerned about them playing four games in a short space of time....Gary himself according to his post match interview....he knows he made the wrong call but for the right reasons.

I think Chris Martin gets a raw deal from Gary. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

9 minutes ago, curtains said:

I think Chris Martin gets a raw deal from Gary. 

I'm sure Gary has his reasons but he may have to reassess his constant resort to Nugent and mix up the squad a bit.

Vydra has the younger legs and is clearly capable of playing every game,so why not utilise Nugent and Martin alternately with him,to suit the particular match being played?

Both seem to work well with him, although the way we are set up,vydra will be celebrating the goals whilst nuge and Chrissie are the bridesmaids who set him up.

[Curtains]

Just now, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'm sure Gary has his reasons but he may have to reassess his constant resort to Nugent and mix up the squad a bit.

Vydra has the younger legs and is clearly capable of playing every game,so why not utilise Nugent and Martin alternately with him,to suit the game?

Both seem to work well with him, although the way we are set up,vydra Willbe celebrating the goals whilst nuge and Chrissie are the bridesmaids who set him up.

Nugent is great after an International break and full of energy but starting 3 games in a week is too much for him IMO and besides that Chris Martin has done nothing wrong to suggest he can’t cut it with Vydra as evidence proved last night 2nd half when we were really unfortunate not to score. 

[Ninos]

Unfortunate not to score?

We did not score against a useless team - that’s the bottom line ! 

Dude go back and watch the Boro game and you’ll see Nugent played a major part in EVERY Vydra goal. The problem yesterday wasn’t Nugent-Vydra it was the rest of it : Fozzy was typically sketchy ultimately costing us one goal and then got bailed out by RK after a worse blunder that should have led to another, and many others were very very wasteful in possession.

The one that looked knackered to me was Lawrence. A Thorne (for Hudd) and Russell (for Lawrence) substitution at halftime prob would have resolved matters - martin when all was said and done had 45 mins and he didn’t set up a goal or come close to scoring one. When in recent memory has he helped get us a key goal to affect a game? You can’t just keep ignoring his constant lack of actual game impact. The one thing working has been Vydra-Nugent so I wouldn’t mess with it.

The wrong decision turned out to be bringing Martin on because with him we failed in the objective: to score a goal or two. And if Winnall was fit, it’s him you would have seen come in. Why? Cuz he scores goals. These are strikers you’re talking about.

[Wolfie]

53 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

To be fair,plenty were concerned about them playing four games in a short space of time....Gary himself according to his post match interview....he knows he made the wrong call but for the right reasons.

But we'll never know that without knowing the outcome given the other choice. Who's to say we wouldn't have lost by more than 1 goal if he'd gone with fresh legs from the start.

It was a calculated risk.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

But we'll never know that without knowing the outcome given the other choice. Who's to say we wouldn't have lost by more than 1 goal if he'd gone with fresh legs from the start.

It was a calculated risk.

So he calculated wrong because he had to bring Martin on for Nugent at HT because he looked tired frustrated.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

50 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Unfortunate not to score?

We did not score against a useless team - that’s the bottom line ! 

Dude go back and watch the Boro game and you’ll see Nugent played a major part in EVERY Vydra goal. The problem yesterday wasn’t Nugent-Vydra it was the rest of it : Fozzy was typically sketchy ultimately costing us one goal and then got bailed out by RK after a worse blunder that should have led to another, and many others were very very wasteful in possession.

The one that looked knackered to me was Lawrence. A Thorne (for Hudd) and Russell (for Lawrence) substitution at halftime prob would have resolved matters - martin when all was said and done had 45 mins and he didn’t set up a goal or come close to scoring one. When in recent memory has he helped get us a key goal to affect a game? You can’t just keep ignoring his constant lack of actual game impact. The one thing working has been Vydra-Nugent so I wouldn’t mess with it.

The wrong decision turned out to be bringing Martin on because with him we failed in the objective: to score a goal or two. And if Winnall was fit, it’s him you would have seen come in. Why? Cuz he scores goals. These are strikers you’re talking about.

Take them off ninos,there's a whole new world out there

[Dethorn]

I was surprised to see an unchanged team but like the idea of stability, however I would have started Thorne Olson and Martin personally.

Not knocking GR though after recent results it was worth a punt.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Dethorn said:

I was surprised to see an unchanged team but like the idea of stability, however I would have started Thorne Olson and Martin personally.

Not knocking GR though after recent results it was worth a punt.

True - but its not what he stated in the pre-season when it was going to be adapting the team to suit the opposition. If hes going to have a different policy of "keeping the shirt" then why not say so?

And only a fool would believe that Middlesbrough away would be a similar proposition to Ipswich at home.

[TuffLuff]

Oh @Ninos I’m not going to quote your nonsense as it’s just another attempt at shutting down the debate. 

Nugent was fatigued from the 1st minute last night, you know how you can tell? He could barely trap the ball, he tried to do everything too quickly and was chasing shadows. As I said last night, Rowett’s problem is that he put all his eggs in one basket in Nugent/Vydra when they’ll never last 46 games together. He needed/needs to look more long term now, get his fringe players into the 11 and start getting partnerships to gel. Vydra and Nugent will have their games, but you need others in there regularly or else we will end up a one person team.

[Ninos]

11 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Oh @Ninos I’m not going to quote your nonsense as it’s just another attempt at shutting down the debate. 

Nugent was fatigued from the 1st minute last night, you know how you can tell? He could barely trap the ball, he tried to do everything too quickly and was chasing shadows. As I said last night, Rowett’s problem is that he put all his eggs in one basket in Nugent/Vydra when they’ll never last 46 games together. He needed/needs to look more long term now, get his fringe players into the 11 and start getting partnerships to gel. Vydra and Nugent will have their games, but you need others in there regularly or else we will end up a one person team.

Well the thread is supposed to be about resting players but it’s actually some sort of ruse for a return to this idea that Martin is a better partner for Vydra than Nugent - zzzzzz - although now the martin fanatics have retreated to a “can we get equal time for Martin, please,” position. 

There were several sub performing players yesterday but starting Thorne and resting Huddlestone or playing with Thomas and not having 2 defensive mids would have been a much shrewder pre match move if you ask me. We knew they’d come and pack it in.

[Van der MoodHoover]

19 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Oh @Ninos I’m not going to quote your nonsense as it’s just another attempt at shutting down the debate. 

Nugent was fatigued from the 1st minute last night, you know how you can tell? He could barely trap the ball, he tried to do everything too quickly and was chasing shadows. As I said last night, Rowett’s problem is that he put all his eggs in one basket in Nugent/Vydra when they’ll never last 46 games together. He needed/needs to look more long term now, get his fringe players into the 11 and start getting partnerships to gel. Vydra and Nugent will have their games, but you need others in there regularly or else we will end up a one person team.

Its just a shame we seem to have to wait for a reverse in results for Gary to do this. Its what makes me have reservations about the  likelihood he will be successful. Needs to be more perceptive to anticipate issues rather than react to them. 

[Sparkle]

More a case of horses for courses , I believe most teams we play at home will sit deep which makes it a better option to start Martin than nugent in my opinion, I thought Martin and Vydra were linking very well last night which is no surprise as they both have very good footballing brains 

[TuffLuff]

16 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Well the thread is supposed to be about resting players but it’s actually some sort of ruse for a return to this idea that Martin is a better partner for Vydra than Nugent - zzzzzz - although now the martin fanatics have retreated to a “can we get equal time for Martin, please,” position. 

There were several sub performing players yesterday but starting Thorne and resting Huddlestone or playing with Thomas and not having 2 defensive mids would have been a much shrewder pre match move if you ask me. We knew they’d come and pack it in.

Your problem is that your constantly battling an argument in your own head. The fact you see a thread like this as a Martin ruse exactly shows your problem. The ‘Martin fanatics’ as you call them are Derby fans like you. Everyone can see the worth in Nugent/Vydra, but it’s fair to say it won’t work every game. So you have to account for that and Rowett needs to know what he can play with rather than being head strong in one way. It’s not ‘give a player equal time’ it’s saying don’t freeze players out because you’ll need them one day.

On the midfielders you are possibly correct but what options do we really have aside a semi fit Thorne?