Millenniumram Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 It’s an interesting arguement this, and from where I’m standing there’s no simple answer. First and foremost the aim in football is to win football matches and reach the highest possible finish you can, no matter how you play. So in that sense at its basic level style of football doesn’t matter. But there’s a caveat there, there’s a difference between a less exciting style of football and a poor style of football. What we played against Brentford was a poor style of football, we would not be successful in the long term playing like that. What we played against hull however was an effective style of play, not Barcelona 2012 admittedly, but we could have success playing like that. Personally I’m primarily focused on us getting results, I enjoy good football and as a neutral in other games that’s what I’d look for, but points on the board are most important for my team. If we can play good football and get results then I’m even more happy, but we should never jeopardise results purely to have more possession etc. Suppose you have to ask whether you’d rather be forest on Saturday who had more possession and style but lost or the more clinical team who won. I know which side I’d rather be on. All that being said tho, and effective style is very risky, you’re position as manager is certainly under more threat if style AND results are poor- leaves you with no leg to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 If you offered me winning football matches in the Premier League with Big Sam or Pulis, or entertaining football that keeps us in the bottom half of the Championship, then I'd choose the former. It's a great debate to have and I enjoy reading people's individual philosophies on this. For me, winning football is good football. But I can see why people would rather watch Cruyff-inspired teams than van Gaal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ninos said: Don't like the debate. We won at a canter and that was pretty damn entertaining to me - maybe not the first half quite as much with the constant giveaways. Wasn't hoofball but was just errant passing over and over. But laboured possession is boring as hell. Cue Clement style. Mcclaren never bothered to build a defence or organise a set piece or how to defend a set piece. He was truly tactically inept and a serial bottler. You have to build the boring stuff - solid defence, set pieces, tactical game management plan, before you can develop your creative attacking. If you look at our second goal, that was pretty cool attacking combination stuff and clinical execution. We are doing that a lot now. Rowett is doing everything. He's teaching this group how to be winners, and the uber entertaining football is just around the corner. Not only do other teams fear us more but they're prob not even sure how we will play or who we will select. All rubbish. We set a record for clean sheets Record number of points for the division Do you want some stats? How many play offs has Rowett "bottled" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alpha said: All rubbish. We set a record for clean sheets Record number of points for the division Do you want some stats? How many play offs has Rowett "bottled" Still didn’t get promoted did we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ninos said: Don't like the debate. We won at a canter and that was pretty damn entertaining to me - maybe not the first half quite as much with the constant giveaways. Wasn't hoofball but was just errant passing over and over. But laboured possession is boring as hell. Cue Clement style. Mcclaren never bothered to build a defence or organise a set piece or how to defend a set piece. He was truly tactically inept and a serial bottler. You have to build the boring stuff - solid defence, set pieces, tactical game management plan, before you can develop your creative attacking. If you look at our second goal, that was pretty cool attacking combination stuff and clinical execution. We are doing that a lot now. Rowett is doing everything. He's teaching this group how to be winners, and the uber entertaining football is just around the corner. Not only do other teams fear us more but they're prob not even sure how we will play or who we will select. McLaren did do the boring stuff too...our defence was frequently the best in the championship....where it fell down was injuries which couldn't be easily replaced. And you don't get to the play offs or ride high in the league (which we aren't currently achieving) by having a crap defence. Clement was a different matter,boring possession which went nowhere. Having said that,I could see Clements style and intention whereas I still don't really know what we are doing on the field at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, curtains said: Still didn’t get promoted did we. Only because he wasn't given the chance..I have no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Only because he wasn't given the chance..I have no doubt about that. Lost his job at England and Newcastle as well. Didnt do well at Forest either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: If you offered me winning football matches in the Premier League with Big Sam or Pulis, or entertaining football that keeps us in the bottom half of the Championship, then I'd choose the former. It's a great debate to have and I enjoy reading people's individual philosophies on this. For me, winning football is good football. But I can see why people would rather watch Cruyff-inspired teams than van Gaal ones. Good football will lead to winning football you're right. But You can't wave a magic wand and be all around a solid unit and entertaining simultaneously. So far he's done a great job has Rowett ... and I can guarantee Rowett knows all about total football and cruyff and it's a myth to say that in the 70s the Dutch were ponderous possession style-they were utterly clinical, neeskins cruyff arie haan rensenbrink etc they just had tremendously skilled (taught the coerver method) footballers. One new dawn of winning football now is a German inspired (Dortmund - Hoffenheim - Leipzig) approach which is what Rowett emulates and brings, adding his own particular flair, but it won't all happen day 1. And it's not an either or : winning v entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 52 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: No because we've lost easily too. So we're not playing 'win at all costs' very well if that is what we're doing. I don't think you get the irony in the post I replied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: McLaren did do the boring stuff too...our defence was frequently the best in the championship....where it fell down was injuries which couldn't be easily replaced. And you don't get to the play offs or ride high in the league (which we aren't currently achieving) by having a crap defence. Clement was a different matter,boring possession which went nowhere. Having said that,I could see Clements style and intention whereas I still don't really know what we are doing on the field at the moment. Well obviously the footballing world doesn't agree with you otherwise he'd be sought after - he's rightly in the refuse pile of ex managers. That tells you the story. Other managers regularly mocked Mcclaren tactics post game : doubt you'll see that now. Warburton has his tactical tail between his legs today : he got skinned. No Ben Osborn stories for them to write these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I don't think you get the irony in the post I replied to. Write more clearly then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adslegend Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, curtains said: Still didn’t get promoted did we. But I'll remember that season for a very long time due to the entertaining football we played. We were 90 minutes from achieving promotion. The majority of neutrals would've said that we deserved promotion over QPR due to us playing very nice attacking football. On another day we'd have won comfortably. You'll only ever remember a season of ugly football if it manages to win you a title, win you a trophy or gain you promotion. I can't see any of those happening any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, curtains said: Still didn’t get promoted did we. Did we get promoted yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Just now, Alpha said: Did we get promoted yesterday? No mate we didn’t. Rowett is hoping to achieve it for Derby County and don’t get me wrong I couldn’t have been happier if McClaren had achieved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 M 45 minutes ago, Ninos said: Don't like the debate. We won at a canter and that was pretty damn entertaining to me - maybe not the first half quite as much with the constant giveaways. Wasn't hoofball but was just errant passing over and over. But laboured possession is boring as hell. Cue Clement style. Mcclaren never bothered to build a defence or organise a set piece or how to defend a set piece. He was truly tactically inept and a serial bottler. You have to build the boring stuff - solid defence, set pieces, tactical game management plan, before you can develop your creative attacking. If you look at our second goal, that was pretty cool attacking combination stuff and clinical execution. We are doing that a lot now. Rowett is doing everything. He's teaching this group how to be winners, and the uber entertaining football is just around the corner. Not only do other teams fear us more but they're prob not even sure how we will play or who we will select. Won at a canter? Are you sure you wasn’t watching a rematch of the 5 nil drubbing rather than yesterday’s match?? im sure if you ask the fans of sheff Utd, Bristol or wolves and I’m sure that based upon the performances they have seen from us that they would be more than happy to play us each week. Not sure what a serial bottler is either, are you saying if GR doesn’t take us to at least the play offs this season he has bottled it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, curtains said: No mate we didn’t. Rowett is hoping to achieve it for Derby County and don’t get me wrong I couldn’t have been happier if McClaren had achieved it. Like I said, the facts show @Ninos post to be complete rubbish again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Beagle said: This point should be put to Mr Mourinho I am pretty sure his answer would be play to win and if you win with style great but first off make sure you do not lose. The football at the moment may not be great but if you are winning no matter how you will fill your ground. But Mr Mourinho does not have to pay a large chunk of his weekly wage to watch the match. Man United have a waiting list for season tickets and will never struggle to fill their ground, such putting bums on seats will not be part of his remit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 33 minutes ago, Ninos said: Good football will lead to winning football you're right. But You can't wave a magic wand and be all around a solid unit and entertaining simultaneously. So far he's done a great job has Rowett ... and I can guarantee Rowett knows all about total football and cruyff and it's a myth to say that in the 70s the Dutch were ponderous possession style-they were utterly clinical, neeskins cruyff arie haan rensenbrink etc they just had tremendously skilled (taught the coerver method) footballers. One new dawn of winning football now is a German inspired (Dortmund - Hoffenheim - Leipzig) approach which is what Rowett emulates and brings, adding his own particular flair, but it won't all happen day 1. And it's not an either or : winning v entertaining. Quality! Lemme guess, Derby just need a midfield shuttler to go with the gengen pressing we've been exhibiting all season and then we can continue being great and perhaps one day be as good as the great Leipzig who are the dawn of new football (pressing is new created by Klopp.) Not like the 70's Dutch side that we all thought played ponderous possession stuff. This cover and press method. Is it new dawn or 70's Cruyff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Beagle said: This point should be put to Mr Mourinho I am pretty sure his answer would be play to win and if you win with style great but first off make sure you do not lose. The football at the moment may not be great but if you are winning no matter how you will fill your ground. 12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But Mr Mourinho does not have to pay a large chunk of his weekly wage to watch the match. Man United have a waiting list for season tickets and will never struggle to fill their ground, such putting bums on seats will not be part of his remit. And are Mourinho sides dull? They have a habit of not fighting for posession against better possession sides when they'll sit deep and counter. Man United have scored 21 goals this season in the league alone. Have Real Madrid ever been dull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alpha said: Quality! Lemme guess, Derby just need a midfield shuttler to go with the gengen pressing we've been exhibiting all season and then we can continue being great and perhaps one day be as good as the great Leipzig who are the dawn of new football (pressing is new created by Klopp.) Not like the 70's Dutch side that we all thought played ponderous possession stuff. This cover and press method. Is it new dawn or 70's Cruyff? Let me just consult Wikipedia, and I'll get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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