An interesting poll - Keep or Sell

[Ninos]

2 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Don't get me wrong, it's refreshing to read a player getting backing and praise despite not really having an impact since arriving 12 months ago for a record fee. It's heartwarming. 

Just a shame that cheaper players we've signed who've contributed a lot more can't be afforded the same. 

Martin for example.

A lot of our players Warren have been yo yoed in and out of the lineup to the point where it's easy for them to not deliver regularly or lose confidence, Martin included. Vydra came in, scored, then pearson got sacked, in came Mac and he immediately dumps Vydra to the bench and reduces him to cameos. Only now is he getting a look but he seems very nervous especially where it counts - at the final decision .

[Jack Willow]

Here are the newest results from the DT Poll - Keep or Sell?

 

 

As we can see after four hours of time, the situation has changed slightly. 

Although I have seen some people disagreeing about the poll, this poll represents a data sample which can be taken as a relevant statistical source.

 

[Ninos]

36 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

I bet the majority of those are Ninos and Toddy refreshing the page over and over to revote.

You're getting desperate lol

[lrm14]

22 minutes ago, Ninos said:

I'm not high on any of our strikers to be totally blunt. You could piece together a good attack with Vydra and Nugent I guess but they gotta be firing - with our existing lineup how exactly is martin gonna come good?

You realise a lot of clubs in our division would give their left nut to have Martin, Vydra and Nugent at their disposal? Three fantastic strikers at this level, all of whom have banged in 20+ in the past. 

As much as I love Russell and think he get's a far too much flak from our fans, I can see Martin doing much better with Lawrence in the side. He's a very direct runner that comes inside very often, which is something Weimann seems to be trying to do on the other flank. Both Nugent and Martin have worked very well with these type of players in the past and I've also not mentioned the fact that Vydra will be moving around there too. 

A bit of stability in the center of the park and I can see them firing on all cylinders. It's a very long season, all three of Martin, Vydra and Nugent will have large roles to play.

[EnigmaRam]

It amazes me people want rid of our best striker in years and keep players like Hanson who have done absolutely nothing whatsoever and never will.

bizarre!

[Steve How Hard?]

1 hour ago, Simsy said:

48% would sell the wardrobe!  That shocked me as it's only about 5% of us that don't rate him on here.

Or maybe fans that rate him feel it is better to cash in on him if we are just gonna hoof it up to him. Use the money to buy players that run very fast all day long. 

[Ninos]

Just now, lrm14 said:

You realise a lot of clubs in our division would give their left nut to have Martin, Vydra and Nugent at their disposal? Three fantastic strikers at this level, all of whom have banged in 20+ in the past. 

As much as I love Russell and think he get's a far too much flak from our fans, I can see Martin doing much better with Lawrence in the side. He's a very direct runner that comes inside very often, which is something Weimann seems to be trying to do on the other flank. Both Nugent and Martin have worked very well with these type of players in the past and I've also not mentioned the fact that Vydra will be moving around there too. 

A bit of stability in the center of the park and I can see them firing on all cylinders. It's a very long season, all three of Martin, Vydra and Nugent will have large roles to play.

Our definitions of fantastic are very different. 

[Day]

28 minutes ago, Ninos said:

I disagree with that - they may swing a bit but not that heavily. You've been the biggest Weimann fan on here and frankly what do you really see? A hard working runner? He can't do much with a football, David. So for this league he's pretty average at best isn't he? He was in everyone's team because our choice is russell Anya Bennett and martin - all non impact players so it's eeny meeny 

Weimann is currently sat at 67% keep in the same poll, only 6 players ahead of him. Why? Because he's one of the few bright sparks from the first 5 games. You talk like he's Ali Dia as you do with any player you don't rate, that's fine, many do its how we are, but worth remembering he's managed to clock up over a hundred Premier League games so clearly has something about him. 

Run that same poll before the season starts and he would be at the bottom with Bent. The transfer topic I was fully in the minority that couldn't believe we was going to let him go for under £2m. How things change.

Nugent 95% keep, why? The 2 goals he has scored which is why Martin is at the bottom. If you honestly don't think that would be the other way round had Martin scored twice and not Nugent I don't know what to say.

I'm pleased this poll backs up your opinion this week but run another after Martin scores and he's back high in the keeps, just the way it is. 

[G STAR RAM]

48 minutes ago, Ninos said:

I'm irrelevant but obviously although a lot of Derby fans do look on here the massive majority don't post do they. So you have a few martin obsessed or Bryson obsessed or whoever and they're on here but martin is totally overcooked here and I'd venture to suggest that Bryson is massively more popular than Martin among the general fanbase. Just one example. 

Really annoys me when people make posts speaking on behalf of the general fanbase.

How on earth do you claim to know what the majority of 40 or 50 thousand people think?!

It just makes you look desperate to try and prove a point. All it makes me do is ignore what you are saying to be honest.

Make your point and leave it at that, don't try and make yourself a self appointed spokesperson for people you have never even spoke to.

[lrm14]

1 minute ago, Ninos said:

Our definitions of fantastic are very different. 

What would yours be then?

Martin is the top goal scoring striker in the championship over the past three seasons, as well as one of the assist leading strikers, making his goal participation amongst the very top at this level. Vydra had one proper season as striker for Watford and banged in over 20 goals, with the majority of Watford being unable to choose between Ighalo and Vydra when he left. Nugent has been one of the key parts of two promotions in the past three years and his career tally in the championship is 325 appearances, 115 goals and 49 assists, which considering his role of a workhorse is a very good return.

Semantics aside, they are proven to be some of the top options at this level whether you like them or not.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Let us hope then that he starts adding goals and assists to his game on a regular basis. 

 

Involved directly in 2 goals in our 4 games. That's not a bad output so far. Think we have much bigger concerns. Namely our midfield, which doesn't seem to have any fluency. 

[Ninos]

7 minutes ago, David said:

Weimann is currently sat at 67% keep in the same poll, only 6 players ahead of him. Why? Because he's one of the few bright sparks from the first 5 games. You talk like he's Ali Dia as you do with any player you don't rate, that's fine, many do its how we are, but worth remembering he's managed to clock up over a hundred Premier League games so clearly has something about him. 

Run that same poll before the season starts and he would be at the bottom with Bent. The transfer topic I was fully in the minority that couldn't believe we was going to let him go for under £2m. How things change.

Nugent 95% keep, why? The 2 goals he has scored which is why Martin is at the bottom. If you honestly don't think that would be the other way round had Martin scored twice and not Nugent I don't know what to say.

I'm pleased this poll backs up your opinion this week but run another after Martin scores and he's back high in the keeps, just the way it is. 

There is a significant gap here between Weimann and those above him.

I just tend to think that with Russell's implosion he represents an only wide option at the moment choice. Thus the mild favouritism.  I prefer Martin to Weimann for the sole reason that the latter although he has several shortcomings can actually play football albeit at a standstill pace. 2m was great money for him and we would have certainly pulled the trigger before the manager who wanted impact players arrived at Wolves.

[Ellafella]

I think this poll is quite pernicious actually.

As somebody has commented on the DET website "Someone wrote "DCFC should stop access to players and staff for DET" - I assumed they'd done that months ago!! There's nothing in DET that wasn't on DCFC official site first, other news feeds or social media, and the fact that DET must spend about 30% of their articles on transfer gossip on other clubs proves it. Absolute tripe. I only come on here for the comments now. Verminous, nasty little poll that could only ever do harm. DET Editor you should be ashamed of your disgraceful sports writers / copiers / muck spreaders".

Perhaps a bit strong but the poll is so very flawed (how can it be representative? I've actually completed it twice). How can you control for the level of expertise of the fans in assessing players? Football isn't really a democracy and players should never be picked/sold according to "popularity straw polls". As a professional researcher and statistician, I really think we should steer clear of this kind of thing. 

Of course, nobody at Derby County in any position of decision-making responsibility would take notice of such a thing...in which case it's pointless. But think of what it might do to players, especially when some may already have low confidence. 

Individual debates which are balanced are all very well, but this poll doesn't deserve any attention. 

That's my considered view for what it's worth. 

[1967Ram]

1 minute ago, Ellafella said:

I think this poll is quite pernicious actually.

As somebody has commented on the DET website "Someone wrote "DCFC should stop access to players and staff for DET" - I assumed they'd done that months ago!! There's nothing in DET that wasn't on DCFC official site first, other news feeds or social media, and the fact that DET must spend about 30% of their articles on transfer gossip on other clubs proves it. Absolute tripe. I only come on here for the comments now. Verminous, nasty little poll that could only ever do harm. DET Editor you should be ashamed of your disgraceful sports writers / copiers / muck spreaders".

Perhaps a bit strong but the poll is so very flawed (how can it be representative? I've actually completed it twice). How can you control for the level of expertise of the fans in assessing players? Football isn't really a democracy and players should never be picked/sold according to "popularity straw polls". As a professional researcher and statistician, I really think we should steer clear of this kind of thing. 

Of course, nobody at Derby County in any position of decision-making responsibility would take notice of such a thing...in which case it's pointless. But think of what it might do to players, especially when some may already have low confidence. 

Individual debates which are balanced are all very well, but this poll doesn't deserve any attention. 

That's my considered view for what it's worth. 

Totally agree. I can't see any benefit for our club at all from this poll.

[Day]

10 minutes ago, Ninos said:

There is a significant gap here between Weimann and those above him.

I just tend to think that with Russell's implosion he represents an only wide option at the moment choice. Thus the mild favouritism.  I prefer Martin to Weimann for the sole reason that the latter although he has several shortcomings can actually play football albeit at a standstill pace. 2m was great money for him and we would have certainly pulled the trigger before the manager who wanted impact players arrived at Wolves.

Significant gap or not only 4 you could say are first team players ahead of him out of the entire squad, forget the position that's irrelevant. Reason he is up that as is Vydra and Nugent because they are flavours of the month which is the point I'm making.

I would massively disagree with you that £2m was great money for him, you look at the fee's going around this window you get nothing for £2m. Even if you don't see Weimann as a starter you would be looking at paying double for an option that would be non par to sit on the bench. 

 

[Ninos]

17 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

What would yours be then?

Martin is the top goal scoring striker in the championship over the past three seasons, as well as one of the assist leading strikers, making his goal participation amongst the very top at this level. Vydra had one proper season as striker for Watford and banged in over 20 goals, with the majority of Watford being unable to choose between Ighalo and Vydra when he left. Nugent has been one of the key parts of two promotions in the past three years and his career tally in the championship is 325 appearances, 115 goals and 49 assists, which considering his role of a workhorse is a very good return.

Semantics aside, they are proven to be some of the top options at this level whether you like them or not.

Come on man. History is history. You can't seriously argue this with the level of impotence we've currently shown in front of the goal. To call our striking options fantastic is ridiculous if none of them can score goals - and don't tell me we aren't getting chances because we are. I hope one or maybe two can start knocking them in regularly and become fantastic but I'm as concerned about our finishing as Rowett prob is. We are creating much more than before but we aren't executing squat.

[Day]

10 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

I think this poll is quite pernicious actually.

As somebody has commented on the DET website "Someone wrote "DCFC should stop access to players and staff for DET" - I assumed they'd done that months ago!! There's nothing in DET that wasn't on DCFC official site first, other news feeds or social media, and the fact that DET must spend about 30% of their articles on transfer gossip on other clubs proves it. Absolute tripe. I only come on here for the comments now. Verminous, nasty little poll that could only ever do harm. DET Editor you should be ashamed of your disgraceful sports writers / copiers / muck spreaders".

Perhaps a bit strong but the poll is so very flawed (how can it be representative? I've actually completed it twice). How can you control for the level of expertise of the fans in assessing players? Football isn't really a democracy and players should never be picked/sold according to "popularity straw polls". As a professional researcher and statistician, I really think we should steer clear of this kind of thing. 

Of course, nobody at Derby County in any position of decision-making responsibility would take notice of such a thing...in which case it's pointless. But think of what it might do to players, especially when some may already have low confidence. 

Individual debates which are balanced are all very well, but this poll doesn't deserve any attention. 

That's my considered view for what it's worth. 

Would it be any different if the poll was on this forum? Newspapers can no longer survive by just reporting the news, they need to generate discussion and whilst some may not be seen as helpful to the club, it's no different to our own fans starting similar topics such as 'The Fall of Johnny Russell' which you could argue is far worse.

[BobbyD]

51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think I am one of the few that doesn't get the hype around Carson. 

Decent shot stopper but stays on his line too much for me, does not command his area at all which doesn't give the defenders much confidence, hence panic whenever crosses come in.

Distribution very hit and miss.

Didn't Carson pick up all of the player of the year awards just a few months ago ?

I'm not sure that you can describe that consistent vote of appreciation as 'hype'

Of course I respect your opinion G star but to me  Carson wins us loads of points every season with his incredible saves. We haven't had this since Poom. 

Don't think there are too many goalkeepers who dominate the penalty area in this era - bit of a myth borne out of the old days. Too much physicality, tactical positioning  and skulduggery for that to happen nowadays. 

And maybe Tom Ince would disagree with the distribution comment - wasn't too bad against the Blues 

[rynny]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Think I am one of the few that doesn't get the hype around Carson. 

Decent shot stopper but stays on his line too much for me, does not command his area at all which doesn't give the defenders much confidence, hence panic whenever crosses come in.

Distribution very hit and miss.

I dread long shots with him. 

[lrm14]

15 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Come on man. History is history. You can't seriously argue this with the level of impotence we've currently shown in front of the goal. To call our striking options fantastic is ridiculous if none of them can score goals - and don't tell me we aren't getting chances because we are. I hope one or maybe two can start knocking them in regularly and become fantastic but I'm as concerned about our finishing as Rowett prob is. We are creating much more than before but we aren't executing squat.

History is what we go like to prove whether people are capable of playing at a certain level, unless you're suggesting that all three of the players mentioned are on a massive decline?

Strikers miss chances at every level, your standards are absurdly high. There isn't a single striker in the world that buries every single chance he gets and you're deluded if you think otherwise. We've missed a couple of clear cut chances sure, but we've buried about 50% of our obvious chances. In fact some of the best chances I can think of that have been from Weimann or Vydra taking far too long on the ball (ignoring that very poor miss from Martin vs Sunderland and Lawrence vs Grimsby). 

We're in the championship and it's about time you realise we're not going to get a striker with the conversion rate of Lewandowski or Suarez because if we had someone of that calibre, they'd be in the CL. Be realistic.