Our signings are only 'poor' because we keep changing managers

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Depends how you look at it. You could argue that When we were screaming out for a plan B we signed Bent and Ince.

you could also argue that when we wasn't scoring under clement we signed an in form striker in Blackman and a fast winger to get past and behind defences that we weren't currently doing. 

Vydra and Martin was an opportunity and change of style of play for more counter attacking football. 

All reasonable signings that just didn't work as hoped.

The thing is, people tend to forget what they were saying at the time when we signed players and say something completely different 6 months later.

Your 'plan b' comment being the perfect example.

[sage]

11 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Depends how you look at it. You could argue that When we were screaming out for a plan B we signed Bent and Ince.

you could also argue that when we wasn't scoring under clement we signed an in form striker in Blackman and a fast winger to get past and behind defences that we weren't currently doing. 

Vydra and Martin was an opportunity and change of style of play for more counter attacking football. 

All reasonable signings that just didn't work as hoped.

How were we screaming out for a plan B? We were in the top 2 and playing great football. 

SM didnt even try plan B, he tried plan A with the wrong players post Eustace and Martin injuries.

[cannable]

24 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Depends how you look at it. You could argue that When we were screaming out for a plan B we signed Bent and Ince.

you could also argue that when we wasn't scoring under clement we signed an in form striker in Blackman and a fast winger to get past and behind defences that we weren't currently doing. 

Vydra and Martin was an opportunity and change of style of play for more counter attacking football. 

All reasonable signings that just didn't work as hoped.

Blackman had scored two goals in the thirteen games before we signed him and we played him on the opposite wing to the one in which he was bagging for fun on. No defending that signing. Judging how Clement misused Ince we'd have probably not gotten the best out of Blackman if we played him on the right anyway.

[Mafiabob]

6 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I find it both bemusing and amusing how easily people criticise our signings over the last few years, but the harsh reality is that they become bad signings once the manager they are bought for is sacked.

Maybe we should stop sacking managers, then we wouldn't end up with so many 'poor' signings.

Mel's scattergun approach to trying to find a winning formula is more to blame than anything.

Welcome to the dark side my friend....

[Mostyn6]

5 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Welcome to the dark side my friend....

I've always thought that Sam Rush's sense would negate Mel's rash decisions, now I'm lost.

[Mafiabob]

41 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I've always thought that Sam Rush's sense would negate Mel's rash decisions, now I'm lost.

In a way...... im hoping Mel goes it alone now. Nowhere to hide. Hope it works. Im really hoping. 

[FindernRam]

36 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

In a way...... im hoping Mel goes it alone now. Nowhere to hide. Hope it works. Im really hoping. 

Hiding from what? Its his club, his money, his passion. You seem to think he is blaming everybody else for his mistakes, well maybe that's true but I doubt it. My experience of people at his level in business is that they are very clear what they want and demand total buy in to the vision. If employees say yes ( at interview) but do something different that's not his fault and they should go!

Now, if Mel does become a one man band control freak and it goes wrong what do you want him to do? Walk away, then what? sell to some asset stripping consortium. No thanks!

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

I've always thought that Sam Rush's sense would negate Mel's rash decisions, now I'm lost.

Nothing wrong with Mel Morris. 

I love the guy. 

[Mafiabob]

14 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Hiding from what? Its his club, his money, his passion. You seem to think he is blaming everybody else for his mistakes, well maybe that's true but I doubt it. My experience of people at his level in business is that they are very clear what they want and demand total buy in to the vision. If employees say yes ( at interview) but do something different that's not his fault and they should go!

Now, if Mel does become a one man band control freak and it goes wrong what do you want him to do? Walk away, then what? sell to some asset stripping consortium. No thanks!

Your words not mine..... 

I seem to think?

Hes calling every shot....... what's the vision? Where have I called for him to go? What if he did sell up and it was someone who took us forward instead of him instead of back? Plenty of what ifs.....

All I'm asking is stability and a some integrity. I don't believe we've seen that since he took the helm have we? 

 

[Parsnip]

Looks like WMG are having a big influence on who we sign, rather than the needs of the squad... 7 players they represent:

They are Bent, Jacob Butterfield, Jason Shackell, Bradley Johnson, Jamie Hanson, Nick Blackman and Luke Thomas.

Along with Paul Clement...

Looks like Mel's on it so hopefully this is all being ironed out.

Interesting article in The Mail(!).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-4467392/index.html

[archied]

39 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Your words not mine..... 

I seem to think?

Hes calling every shot....... what's the vision? Where have I called for him to go? What if he did sell up and it was someone who took us forward instead of him instead of back? Plenty of what ifs.....

All I'm asking is stability and a some integrity. I don't believe we've seen that since he took the helm have we? 

 

Calling for Stability I can understand but questioning the mans integrity is a bit harsh in my opinion ? Given that we are not privy to the ins and outs behind the scenes it's perhaps not fair to be that harsh ? For me watching how things pan out with rowett will tell us more about mel in terms of whether he is this trigger happy impatient owner he can easily be painted to be or whether he is just struggling to find the right people to work with , by that I mean it's gonna be pretty hard to explain away an early sacking of rowett if it goes that way but I've got a feeling that rowett will be the right man for mel to work with in the way that he perhaps thought clement would be but was nt ( I always stated that clement was a massive gamble for Derby at the stage we were ) 

now if I'm totally wrong and rowett is not given time to build his team then I will start to worry that mel perhaps won't get things right at the club 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, archied said:

Calling for Stability I can understand but questioning the mans integrity is a bit harsh in my opinion ? Given that we are not privy to the ins and outs behind the scenes it's perhaps not fair to be that harsh ? For me watching how things pan out with rowett will tell us more about mel in terms of whether he is this trigger happy impatient owner he can easily be painted to be or whether he is just struggling to find the right people to work with , by that I mean it's gonna be pretty hard to explain away an early sacking of rowett if it goes that way but I've got a feeling that rowett will be the right man for mel to work with in the way that he perhaps thought clement would be but was nt ( I always stated that clement was a massive gamble for Derby at the stage we were ) 

now if I'm totally wrong and rowett is not given time to build his team then I will start to worry that mel perhaps won't get things right at the club 

Rowett is the right man and so is Mel Morris IMO 

[RoyMac5]

Can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. It's the players, too many average players signed not better than what we had. Two steps forwards, two steps back, lol!

If they're so good we'll have no problem selling them will we?

[DesertRam]

Reading between the lines, we were only looking at certain available players, and

not all of them!!!

[Ken Tram]

11 hours ago, cannable said:

 

I'd say that the only good signings Clement made were Carson and Butters. The rest were awful, none of them fit the system

 

But did the managers do the signings?

[G STAR RAM]

11 hours ago, DesertRam said:

Reading between the lines, we were only looking at certain available players, and

not all of them!!!

I just can't get my head around.

If we were getting first shout on Wasserman players, surely that would have been expected?

If the accusation is that we we were signing Wasserman players purely because of who their agents were, did the managers have no say in this?!

[Carnero]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I just can't get my head around.

If we were getting first shout on Wasserman players, surely that would have been expected?

If the accusation is that we we were signing Wasserman players purely because of who their agents were, did the managers have no say in this?!

That's appears to be the crux of the matter doesn't it:

We either have an abundance of WMG players due to getting first dibs on them because of the contacts of our CEO (and manager at the time) OR we were signing WMG players, potentially over better suited non-WMG players, for more underhand reasons. I guess time will tell which is the correct statement.

[clarkeram7]

As much as I agree that the managerial merry go round hasn't helped, we're sugar coating it a bit here! The recruitment simply has been terrible.. since the play off final 3 years ago only Carson and maybe Ince has improved our first 11 or group of 18. I don't care what manager you put in place Nick Blackman has never and will never be worth 3 million pounds!!! I'd go as far as saying that deal is one of the worst in our history.. he's running close to Claude Davis. 

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Saul Pimpson said:

That's appears to be the crux of the matter doesn't it:

We either have an abundance of WMG players due to getting first dibs on them because of the contacts of our CEO (and manager at the time) OR we were signing WMG players, potentially over better suited non-WMG players, for more underhand reasons. I guess time will tell which is the correct statement.

For the second statement to be true though surely there would be more people other than just SR implicated

[RamNut]

On 3 May 2017 at 08:01, Mostyn6 said:

I find it both bemusing and amusing how easily people criticise our signings over the last few years, but the harsh reality is that they become bad signings once the manager they are bought for is sacked.

Maybe we should stop sacking managers, then we wouldn't end up with so many 'poor' signings.

Mel's scattergun approach to trying to find a winning formula is more to blame than anything.

 you have officially come out of your trance.