Mel interview

[archied]

Derby county is not mel Morris's club ( this is half the reason some people get up in arms with mel or owners of clubs in general). , but Derby are his project , just like Chelsea are romans project , Newcastle are Ashley s project , Derby were at one point longstons project ,, 

we as football fans can only really hope that the people who take on our clubs as projects have good intentions for what they want to do with clubs ( build a club up and bring success / milk the club for what it's worth and then bugger off ) and they have enough nouse to achieve their goals , 

its very clear that Morris has the right intentions for the club , what he will need to do to succeed is gather the right people around him , he clearly has managed to do that in business so we need to hope that he can do the same with Derby county , it possible the perceived trigger happy stuff is him ruthlessly putting that into action ? 

Are those fans that blame him for everything from A to Z and accuse him of producing decline at Derby not the trigger happy ones ,, we were not a Europe chasing prem team that Mel has come in and got relegated whilst selling the assets , we were a mid table championship team that had one ( overachieving?) half a season which took us to a play off final where we came up short .

morris is trying to take this club forward and at no little cost from his own back pocket, it doesn't make him some kind of untouchable God at the club but some fans need to give their head a wobble

[Ewe Ram]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Going over old ground but I blame Mel for our decline. He talked a good game, but decisions under his tenure in terms of recruitment, wages and structure have been diobolical.

His input ruined the close-knit mentality we previously had and the Pearson appointment showed a complete lack of footballing knowledge.

Decline? A club in decline? How dramatic  

We are not going backwards are we? We're not leaping forward at high speed either but to say we're in decline isn't factual. We're 9th, comfortably at the top of mid table. We're a mid table team with aspirations to improve on that. 

 

[IlsonDerby]

I have to admit I agreed with every sacking Mel has made and his managerial appointments at the time have always seemed positive. 

I think MACs time was untenable, I think the football under clement was horrendous, Pearson quite clearly had to go and MAC 2 had a similar record to Pearson in his last 9/10 games so if it was enough to get Pearson sacked then why shouldn't Mac also go? 

I dont buy this 'clement should have had more time' it was evident we were on the decline and I couldn't see where our next win was coming from. He had a honeymoon period at Swansea but now they're back to being dogsh1t too.

in terms of incoming managers clement was seen as an up and coming coach with an incredible CV, Pearson was someone who would be seen to sort out the mental frailties displayed consistently by our squad (most of us agreed at the time with the decision if I remember the poll on here), Mac being rehired was a sensible stop gap as he knew the club and it was worth a risk. He did well with us but there's no arguing the form from his last ten games. 

Finally Rowett. If we are bottom 3 in November I would imagine him to be on thin ice/sacked. But right now almost every Derby fan believes he's the right man for the job. So fast forward to November December time, if we are bottom three and he's sacked Mel will be hounded out again for a decision that is reasonable...

 

For me its Mels naivety with the finances that have angered me. He should have set a generous but sensible budget for the season and given Sam Rush that figure to play with. This open chequebook approach has ruined us financially - £10m deficit per year just on wages... 

[Ninos]

10 hours ago, jono said:

You know what .. Clement apart ( I didn't enjoy the football but still think he should have had longer ) I think Mel has made the right calls. Pearson was a bold decision .. No one realised he was THAT odd .. Thankfully Mel found a way to pull the plug. Mac .. A good coach but I really do think he flat lined. We could have been floundering and talking the same platitudes for ever more. 

i'd like to critisise the recruitment but most of the spending was due injury crises or in support of a new manager .. What was he to do ? Be called timid, all mouth and no trousers, no ambition, slow to react ? 

I hope Gaz is the man .. It feels right. But I am a Mel fan .. Anyone who puts a million quid a month in to the club and wants us to progress is getting my vote. Thank god we have some hope and aren't a financial basket case. 

 

Jono - I agree except the bit about recruitment. Yes he should have said NO! It was inconsistent with what he'd argued was the Derby way.  (Clement was especially contrary if you remember). The owner has even admitted he went wrong there, thankfully. The injury thing is a poor excuse. We have a U23 team a u18 team, loans. Use those! You of all people know how good Rawson Zanzala Lowe Elsnik and others are. Instead we brought in mediocre players on long contracts - just because we had money. Add to that, and some of us have been saying it for ages - and now GR and Mel are confirming it - large squads of senior players not playing are toxic to the team morale. Every manager in the league knows we have had little unity and little fight and we're just a grouping of individuals on high wages. 

[rynny]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Going over old ground but I blame Mel for our decline. He talked a good game, but decisions under his tenure in terms of recruitment, wages and structure have been diobolical.

His input ruined the close-knit mentality we previously had and the Pearson appointment showed a complete lack of footballing knowledge.

I thought you said that it all started when Bent was brought in, which was pre-Mel?

[rynny]

24 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Jono - I agree except the bit about recruitment. Yes he should have said NO! It was inconsistent with what he'd argued was the Derby way.  (Clement was especially contrary if you remember). The owner has even admitted he went wrong there, thankfully. The injury thing is a poor excuse. We have a U23 team a u18 team, loans. Use those! You of all people know how good Rawson Zanzala Lowe Elsnik and others are. Instead we brought in mediocre players on long contracts - just because we had money. Add to that, and some of us have been saying it for ages - and now GR and Mel are confirming it - large squads of senior players not playing are toxic to the team morale. Every manager in the league knows we have had little unity and little fight and we're just a grouping of individuals on high wages. 

Tbf at the point of signing Johnson and Butterfield we had Thorne, Hendrick, Hanson and Baird as players that could play CM. With Hendrick, Hanson and Thorne all having to go off injured in August, Birmingham away we only had Baird and Thorne as available CM, we needed bodies and there was no way we could have maintained a promotion for the season as it was. We needed 1 permanent player and a loan player, said it a few times, glad Mel sees that now. We really haven't taken advantage of loan signings since Ince.

[Day]

3 hours ago, archied said:

Derby county is not mel Morris's club ( this is half the reason some people get up in arms with mel or owners of clubs in general). , but Derby are his project , just like Chelsea are romans project , Newcastle are Ashley s project , Derby were at one point longstons project ,, 

I know many like to think that football clubs are somehow owned the fans, but Derby County is a registered business and Mel Morris is the registered owner until he decides to sell to someone else, then it will be their club.

Yes a football club would be nothing without it's fans, same way as Tesco is nothing without it's customers, but let's not fool ourselves here, this is currently Mel's business/club and we are the customers/fans.

Just have to try and not think about it like that, same way as you don't want to think who's been with your missus before.

[Seth's left foot]

2 minutes ago, David said:

I know many like to think that football clubs are somehow owned the fans, but Derby County is a registered business and Mel Morris is the registered owner until he decides to sell to someone else, then it will be their club.

Yes a football club would be nothing without it's fans but let's not fool ourselves here, this is currently Mel's business/club.

And he isn't blessed with hindsight and uncommitted decision making like certain fans seem to be.

i'm glad I wasn't on here when the 3 Amigos were in charge.

[G STAR RAM]

14 hours ago, rammieib said:

Whilst I get what you're talking about, every little thing can improve a team/Individual by 0.5% a football club is a very different type of business on the field.

For me, it really is simple:

1) Recurit a top manager/Coaching team

2) Recruit top quality players

3) Allow said coaching team to coach players and players produce on the pitch

Points 1, 2 and 3 above will effect the performances 100% better (or worse) on the pitch compared to the 0.5% initiatives off the pitch (Kaizen).

Sadly since Mel has come in, we have had 1 and 2 at separate times, never had point three and definitely never had all of them together.

Look at the successful teams this year in the Prem/Champ, and don't tell me Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle and Brighton don't have points 1/2/3 at the same time.

So we are onto another manager, I'm not criticising anyone here bar MM. I hope to god MM can somehow step to the side and let Gary control all aspects to achieve 1/2/3. How good he is on the training ground will determine our long term success, but I pay very little attention personally into gimmicks and more into the coaching of players on the training pitch and how they adapt that onto a Saturday afternoon.

Chelsea and Newcastle have both averaged in excess of 1 manager/caretaker per season over the last decade.

[ramblur]

39 minutes ago, David said:

I know many like to think that football clubs are somehow owned the fans, but Derby County is a registered business and Mel Morris is the registered owner until he decides to sell to someone else, then it will be their club.

Yes a football club would be nothing without it's fans, same way as Tesco is nothing without it's customers, but let's not fool ourselves here, this is currently Mel's business/club and we are the customers/fans.

Just have to try and not think about it like that, same way as you don't want to think who's been with your missus before.

Have to agree with you there,although I do understand what @archied was saying.It seems to stop being 'our' club  for a spell whenever we get into dire straits,until someone rescues us and we resume joint ownership. 

[G STAR RAM]

28 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Have to agree with you there,although I do understand what @archied was saying.It seems to stop being 'our' club  for a spell whenever we get into dire straits,until someone rescues us and we resume joint ownership. 

Spot on.

Amazing that people believe that they pay the players wages. Never heard the same thing said when not enjoying the product in a restaurant or not receiving good service at a retail outlet.

[archied]

2 hours ago, David said:

I know many like to think that football clubs are somehow owned the fans, but Derby County is a registered business and Mel Morris is the registered owner until he decides to sell to someone else, then it will be their club.

Yes a football club would be nothing without it's fans, same way as Tesco is nothing without it's customers, but let's not fool ourselves here, this is currently Mel's business/club and we are the customers/fans.

Just have to try and not think about it like that, same way as you don't want to think who's been with your missus before.

Your not getting what I'm saying , I don't have a romantic notion that owners don't own the club at point of ownership and are somehow bound by the fact that the clubs are pretty much dead and buried without its fans history and future but it is a bit of a unique business to own , it's like owning a house , it was there before you bought it and how you treat it while you own has massive bearing on its well being and value present and future , you can even knock it down and build another on the plot ,, 

my point really is that I believe mel gets the whole moment in time thing that owning a football club is and he sees it as a project and rather than feeling he owns Derby county in a pure ownership manner ,he wants to become a part of Derby county history and I beleive he wants his place in the history of Derby county to be seen as a positive era for the club and his part in it ,, 

im rambling a bit but I hope you get the distinction I'm trying to make between being the owner or the custodian in a good owners head ( which I believe mel is) rather than the up in arms view of owner/ custodian of some of us fans

[RadioactiveWaste]

7 minutes ago, archied said:

Your not getting what I'm saying , I don't have a romantic notion that owners don't own the club at point of ownership and are somehow bound by the fact that the clubs are pretty much dead and buried without its fans history and future but it is a bit of a unique business to own , it's like owning a house , it was there before you bought it and how you treat it while you own has massive bearing on its well being and value present and future , you can even knock it down and build another on the plot ,, 

my point really is that I believe mel gets the whole moment in time thing that owning a football club is and he sees it as a project and rather than feeling he owns Derby county in a pure ownership manner ,he wants to become a part of Derby county history and I beleive he wants his place in the history of Derby county to be seen as a positive era for the club and his part in it ,, 

im rambling a bit but I hope you get the distinction I'm trying to make between being the owner or the custodian in a good owners head ( which I believe mel is) rather than the up in arms view of owner/ custodian of some of us fans

The value in a sports club is created by the emotional investment that fans make. IF no one cared, there would be nothing of value for shareholders/investors/owners to be stumping up money for. 

That's what Jock Stein (i think it was) meant when he said "football without the fans is nothing"

There's a bit about this in the book "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"

[ramblur]

19 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The value in a sports club is created by the emotional investment that fans make. IF no one cared, there would be nothing of value for shareholders/investors/owners to be stumping up money for. 

 

Not too convinced about the "emotional" investment. Years ago I was a season ticket holder for many seasons.I was only this because I knew I'd be attending most,if not all, home games and it was quite simply a lot cheaper to buy a season ticket.Sure,particularly in those days when attendances formed the bulk of income, my support (along with that of many others) helped keep the club alive. I could never say,however, that this formed part of my thinking when going,it was merely a by product. Just as I attended because it was something I wanted to do,it would be the same for the cinema,theatre,restaurant etc. If nobody went to a restaurant,there'd be nothing of value to encourage the owner/s to stump up money. 

Contrast the attendances now to what we used to get in the third division -there wasn't much emotional investment then.I think the truth is that people go to football matches because they want to see football,and obviously you're more likely to go to local games (from an expense point of view). Naturally you want your local club to do well,because you'll then likely see better football. 

[Bris Vegas]

6 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

Decline? A club in decline? How dramatic  

We are not going backwards are we? We're not leaping forward at high speed either but to say we're in decline isn't factual. We're 9th, comfortably at the top of mid table. We're a mid table team with aspirations to improve on that. 

 

I never said the club was in decline. I was referring to the first-team - quality and style.

We have gone backwards. We finished 3rd in 2013/14 and then unluckily missed out the following year. Since then we've spent about £40m in fees on new players, our wage budget has risen by over 50% and we're worse off for it. 

4 hours ago, rynny said:

I thought you said that it all started when Bent was brought in, which was pre-Mel?

Signing Bent on loan rather than someone more similar to Martin's style was a mistake.

An even bigger mistake was then signing him permanently on like £30k+ wages a week. That was under Mel.

[RadioactiveWaste]

3 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Not too convinced about the "emotional" investment. Years ago I was a season ticket holder for many seasons.I was only this because I knew I'd be attending most,if not all, home games and it was quite simply a lot cheaper to buy a season ticket.Sure,particularly in those days when attendances formed the bulk of income, my support (along with that of many others) helped keep the club alive. I could never say,however, that this formed part of my thinking when going,it was merely a by product. Just as I attended because it was something I wanted to do,it would be the same for the cinema,theatre,restaurant etc. If nobody went to a restaurant,there'd be nothing of value to encourage the owner/s to stump up money. 

Contrast the attendances now to what we used to get in the third division -there wasn't much emotional investment then.I think the truth is that people go to football matches because they want to see football,and obviously you're more likely to go to local games (from an expense point of view). Naturally you want your local club to do well,because you'll then likely see better football. 

We written counterpoint @ramblur, but if it was as simple as that, we'd rapidly move towards having a much smaller number of "big clubs" in a similar way that small retailers have been surpassed by big chains. And whilst we can all see an element of that in the number of "fans" of top 4 clubs, a lot of people do feel invested in their team. 

[archied]

38 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The value in a sports club is created by the emotional investment that fans make. IF no one cared, there would be nothing of value for shareholders/investors/owners to be stumping up money for. 

That's what Jock Stein (i think it was) meant when he said "football without the fans is nothing"

There's a bit about this in the book "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"

It's a bit of a wierd  one to de tangle , in some ways mel kind of buys the fans with the club too ,daft as that sounds ,, yes they can walk away but in all honesty for real football fans the club becomes woven into the fabric of who they are and visa versa , when you buy a club you buy that too ,you buy far more than a conventional business ,you buy into people's lives , their history , their childhoods ,their relationships with parent who took them and shared time with ,you buy people's memories , 

ownership of a football club can never really be simply measured by monetary terms in the same way land is never really owned , it's part of us and we are part of it , mel is and was heavily invested in Derby county long before he had the money to invest/ own it ? In money terms ,,,,,, I would rather have that than some faceless newcomer with no prior connection whatsoever with all the pros and cons of being emotionally attached brings 

[Nuwtfly]

Six managers, a host of poor signings after spending more money than we've ever spent, a slow regression down the table, accompanied by a change in our reputation from an exciting, upcoming side who stuck with their manager for longer than anyone else in the Championship to becoming that team who sack managers after nine games. It's been more bad than good since Mel Morris arrived, unfortunately.

I appreciate that people like him, because he clearly loves the club and clearly wants us to get better (not going to argue against all the money he's put into us), but if Mel was a foreign owner, people would have a much more negative opinion of him, I think. I'm personally worried MM is a rich fan who desperately wants to be football manager, but can't be.

Hope I am proved wrong over the next few years, and I really hope he has learned his lessons from the past three years. Nothing in this interview says to me that he has. Seems that everyone else is to blame. 

 

[ramblur]

3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

We written counterpoint @ramblur, but if it was as simple as that, we'd rapidly move towards having a much smaller number of "big clubs" in a similar way that small retailers have been surpassed by big chains. And whilst we can all see an element of that in the number of "fans" of top 4 clubs, a lot of people do feel invested in their team. 

I could well see how those who've supported through thick and thin might feel entitled to think that.However,I also think that there are an awful lot (possibly more) of fair weather fans that seem to think they're in some way co-owners.The bottom line for me is whether the admission cost relates purely to the spectacle being offered (as in,say, the cinema),or whether it includes some kind of donation to the club.

[Ghost of Clough]

46 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I never said the club was in decline. I was referring to the first-team - quality and style.

We have gone backwards. We finished 3rd in 2013/14 and then unluckily missed out the following year. Since then we've spent about £40m in fees on new players, our wage budget has risen by over 50% and we're worse off for it. 

Signing Bent on loan rather than someone more similar to Martin's style was a mistake.

An even bigger mistake was then signing him permanently on like £30k+ wages a week. That was under Mel.

You say that but the general trend over the past 10 seasons has seen an improvement of 1 or 2 places per season.

Position finishes:

20th (prem)

18th

14th

19th

12th

10th

3rd

8th

5th

9th (current)

 

Out of those 10 seasons, only 3 have deviated off the 1 or 2 place improvement per season (based off trendline), and each of those three vary off the general trend. For two of those, some could argue we overachieved during mac's first stint, and underachieved this season.