DCFCTom84 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Pointless changing system when we are going to play 433 with Martin uptop next season. Why change now, only to revert back this summer? And we will revert back, otherwise we wouldnt have signed Martin on a new long-term contract. I know it feels like it isnt working at thr moment, but thats largely due to an imbalance in the squad. We dont have 11 players all at ease in one particular system. Thats the fault of our recruitment in recent years under different types of managers with differing philosophies. What we can do though is work on aspects of our game. Forget results, we are out of the playoff race and also in no danger of going down. We've got 12 games to work on things ahead of next season. Nugent must feature more often if he is to play a part next season, and the same could apply for Bennett too. I agree with everything you say with regards to recruitment and certainly Nugent, Bennett and possibly one or two other younger players being used more. However, I would suggest that the "we have no plan B" criticism is valid and using time to try different options would have some value. The return of Martin and Thorne would make 433 work more effectively but both these players could fit into 4231 as well so nothing would be lost by trying it while we have the unfortunate scenario of a dead season. We could then have more flexibility to use different system when faced with injuries, suspensions or even just different opposition that need to be counteracted in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We have played with two strikers almost every game lately. If that ain't plan b, what the hell is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCTom84 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, Dimmu said: We have played with two strikers almost every game lately. If that ain't plan b, what the hell is it? we've played with 2 strikers later in games when behind not the same as starting games differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, DCFCTom84 said: we've played with 2 strikers later in games when behind not the same as starting games differently So it's tactical option when we are desperate to score. My question stays the same, if that ain't plan b, what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Once the whistle goes it's less about formation and more about the game plan and how well they players carry it out. 4 3 3 is perfect but we could do with that fat lad back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, TomInceOnFire said: Hooray, he's finally realised the bleeding obvious, now let's have vydra and Nugent up front and have it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, Millenniumram said: Hooray, he's finally realised the bleeding obvious, now let's have vydra and Nugent up front and have it! Too obvious. It'll be bent and Bennett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, HantsRam said: Too obvious. It'll be bent and Bennett. Or Olsson and Mitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: When children play football they play 4-4-2, so what happens when they become adults (or should I say Derby players) We seem to lack the ability to play it. My experience of children playing football is the manager putting the biggest players in defence. the quickest out wide and leaving the most technical on the bench (some sour eggs on my part). Some players are inherently suited, based on how they play the game, to different formations. When McClaren took over from Clough we had a squad playing 442/41212 that was suited to 433. Due to the differing philosophies of the managers after McClaren, we now have a patchwork of players. Some are suited to 433 - you Will Hughes, Craig Brysons of the world. Some are suited to 442 - your Abdoul Camaras and Matej Vydras. Even then, you have players who thrive in the differing styles found within the same formation. For Example - Vydra can't thrive in a Pearson 442 without a target man up front to help him. Bryson can't thrive in a 433 without a Martin-type figure to help him. McClaren needs to decide what direction he wants to take this club, in terms of shape and playing style and then kick some players to the curb based on their future usefulness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: When children play football they play 4-4-2, so what happens when they become adults (or should I say Derby players) We seem to lack the ability to play it. So you think we should play the children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambalin Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If the players hit form then 4-3-3 is fine there is not a side in the league who can live with us.However they are not hitting there best which means no matter which system you choose we struggle. Looking around other forums I see the same discussions when teams are out of form.The Wednesday and Huddersfield forums were the same saying they had no plan b. I forget which manager said it but he said no matter the system the idea is to play better than the opposition. So it does not matter if you have systems a to z if the players are not on form or good enough you struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, Parsnip said: So you think we should play the children? Yes, Timi Max when is he coming back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, DCFCTom84 said: I agree with everything you say with regards to recruitment and certainly Nugent, Bennett and possibly one or two other younger players being used more. However, I would suggest that the "we have no plan B" criticism is valid and using time to try different options would have some value. The return of Martin and Thorne would make 433 work more effectively but both these players could fit into 4231 as well so nothing would be lost by trying it while we have the unfortunate scenario of a dead season. We could then have more flexibility to use different system when faced with injuries, suspensions or even just different opposition that need to be counteracted in different ways. The whole plan B thing IMO is a load of cobbles. We aren't going to win everygame. That's inevitable. So the calls for a plan B every time we come unstuck is rather pointless if plan A works the majority of the time. If Plan A doesn't work then obviously it needs changing. Though what must be taken into account is why it hasn't worked and whether we really have the players to play Plan A. I mean, remember Reading 2006? They won the Championship with a record 106 points. They won 31, drew 13 and lost 2. What that means is they won two thirds of their games. So basic maths here, on average for every three games they failed to win one of them. Failed to win for 1/3 of the season. Do you think their fans called for plan B every time they failed to win? Of course they didn't. Because they knew that plan A was sufficent enough to win them the league with relative ease over the long-term. The calls for plan B or lack of because we failed to beat Wigan Athletic or Middlesbrough was a joke. We didn't need a plan B. It's inevitable some teams will - to phrase some on here - 'work us out' but fortunately enough they are few and far between and certainly not enough to throw a hissy fit over. Accept we lose some. Work on plan A. Perfect plan A and we will win enough games to earn promotion. The only reason we missed out on promotion in 2014/15 was due to Martin and all our DMs getting injured. Instead of buying 8 new players and spending hours on the training ground trying to come up with a suitable plan B, we need to bring in sufficient cover (and the right sort of players!) for those key positions and work on perfecting plan A. Do that, and we will win enough games and collect enough points to get promoted though with the inevitable stumble along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We are piggy in the middle ... Until Nugent plays regularly or Martin comes back we don't play 433 properly as the central strikers (Bent / Vydra ) don't drop deep enough to collect the ball from our midfield which moves the ball too slowly and from too deep. Thus oportunities are left to moments of genius from Ince or Hughes. i'd love 2 up front but it would just accentuate the lack of power in the middle. Bent, Martin, Ince, Vydra could all be a one of a dangerous front 2 but pointless if we don't have the ball to give them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 @uck it let's go 10 up front , we have nothing to lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: Or Olsson and Mitchell. Only a matter of time before its you and me DEL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbylad92 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 When keogh and shacks are back 31312 Carson Keogh pearce shacks De sart Johnson butterfield hughes Ince Vydra nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I swear some people look at the formations on Sky Sports and twitter without actually watching the game. Like the Bristol and Cardiff games. Nothing at all to do with formations. It's not 433 when defending a corner. Sticking more blokes near the goal doesn't mean more goals if you can't get the ball up there properly. I've seen Ince play in about 5 different areas of the pitch in the last 5 weeks. They don't show that on Sky Sports graphics though. The problem is there's too many players built for different things. You've got plan A-Z in our team. We've got hoofballers, ballet dancers, all wingers are left footed, no attacking midfielder worth a start and are very short on strikers that understand that to create chances they need to invite the team forward. It's organised mess under Mac. But it's still a mess You shouldn't have booked your play off final tickets in December and you shouldn't be ripping up your season tickets now. Just like you shouldn't be worrying about who's good enough for the PL when we aren't in it. Still do it though as soon as we win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Oh, and my gripe with Mac. What's his record with Johnson backing up Hughes and Butters? And without? Maybe it's the best players for the team that should be playing and not just the best players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 My missus does OK with two up front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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