catram Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 if he dont start with 2 forwards saturday i give up we got 12 games try something else instead of 4-3-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Give up then , because we won't start with 2 up front . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catram Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 I will after sat if he goes 4-3-3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, catram said: if he dont start with 2 forwards saturday i give up we got 12 games try something else instead of 4-3-3 Don't you realise we cannot play any other way than 4-******* 3-bolloccks-3! Seriously I am with you mate, we need change and we need players that are capable of change - if they can't then let Mac ship everyone out in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 It's not a case of not being able to play any other way , Mac doesn't want too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We always start 4-3-3 but if we are losing he switches to two wingers and two in midfield. So why not start like that and revert to 4-3-3 if we get a lead? Still want to see Ince, Vydra and Nugent start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catram Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, toddy said: Don't you realise we cannot play any other way than 4-******* 3-bolloccks-3! Seriously I am with you mate, we need change and we need players that are capable of change - if they can't then let Mac ship everyone out in the summer. we cant play 4-3-3 either with no decent holding mid or target man this is first time in 3 yrs we not going for promotion perfect to try something vydra nugent up front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, catram said: if he dont start with 2 forwards saturday i give up we got 12 games try something else instead of 4-3-3 I was at Birmingham away the last time we did it, and we were forced into it but Martin and bent looked very good on the night, we finished 1-1 but they scored another deflected goal and we equalised through Russell but ince bent and wieman all hit the woodwork. And we had Baird and Thorne in central midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, Sparkle said: I was at Birmingham away the last time we did it, and we were forced into it but Martin and bent looked very good on the night, we finished 1-1 but they scored another deflected goal and we equalised through Russell but ince bent and wieman all hit the woodwork. And we had Baird and Thorne in central midfield Here's the thing - in many threads are posts saying that our current midfield players are too small, weak and slow so we get overrun. In a 3. We need a dominant Thorne type for a midfield 2 otherwise it'll be even worse. Wanting to play 2 up with a small weak midfield leads to a 352 formation. But then we don't have the defenders for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If 4-3-3 is the long term aim then surely we are best of sticking to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: If 4-3-3 is the long term aim then surely we are best of sticking to that? Yes I agree but if a team can swing into either we would be very potent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 33 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: We always start 4-3-3 but if we are losing he switches to two wingers and two in midfield. So why not start like that and revert to 4-3-3 if we get a lead? Still want to see Ince, Vydra and Nugent start. Because out-and-out 4-4-2 leaves us very exposed in midfield. If you are losing, and the other team is sitting back trying to hold on, you don't need the extra man in midfield as they won't be pressing high up the pitch, so it makes sense throw the extra forward on and go for it. Starting the game like that is just encouraging the opposition to win the ball back high up the pitch and run at our back 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomInceOnFire Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said: Because out-and-out 4-4-2 leaves us very exposed in midfield. If you are losing, and the other team is sitting back trying to hold on, you don't need the extra man in midfield as they won't be pressing high up the pitch, so it makes sense throw the extra forward on and go for it. Starting the game like that is just encouraging the opposition to win the ball back high up the pitch and run at our back 4. I appreciate that but even with three our midfield has not been fluent or creative. Until we find the right three it might be worth trying the 4-2-4 approach (I don't see wingers as midfield players), and get the wide players to pepper the box where two strikers rather than one should be waiting. I know it's not sustainable over a season unless you're Man U and you have Giggs and Ronaldo but it at least makes us less predictable. Each season the 4-3-3 works for a while then gets exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Anag Ram said: I appreciate that but even with three our midfield has not been fluent or creative. Until we find the right three it might be worth trying the 4-2-4 approach (I don't see wingers as midfield players), and get the wide players to pepper the box where two strikers rather than one should be waiting. I know it's not sustainable over a season unless you're Man U and you have Giggs and Ronaldo but it at least makes us less predictable. Each season the 4-3-3 works for a while then gets exposed. I can see why people would want to try it. Conventional wisdom is that in our situation, you tighten up at the back, try and grind out some 1-0 wins and get some confidence back, before opening up again. What you're suggesting is literally the opposite - it will probably turn every game into a Bristol City/Cardiff style shootout, and I don't really fancy us to win in that situation (not that we're winning doing anything else, at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 When children play football they play 4-4-2, so what happens when they become adults (or should I say Derby players) We seem to lack the ability to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Forget formations for a minute. The key movements during Mac 1 that resulted in somebody creating space was the triangle of the AM, the winger and the full-back. The full-back would end up overlapping and the midfielder and winger would end up with one hanging about in the channel and the other making it to the by-line. It's incredibly hard to track all three movements if you're the opposition, even if they're defending deep and you're ending up with somebody free on the edge of the box, somebody ready to pull one back or somebody with time and space to deliver a cross. We don't really have these triangles any more because of the players we have at our disposal and thus don't seem capable of breaking teams down. What I have noticed though is that Nugent tends to drift into the channels to link up play. Perhaps he can be the key. Let him act as the third man in both channels and have De Sart and one of Butters or Hughes controlling the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCTom84 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 There will never be a better time to experiment with this squad than now so I would like to see something new/different. Both Pearson and Mac have been guilty of trying to play systems that we don't necessarily have the players for. Pearson was determined to use 442 without the strength in midfield (using Hughes and Bryson) and we were overrun in midfield. Mac has been equally determined to use 433 despite not having the 2 key components (holding mid and target man) that make it most successful. Mac has had slightly more success as during our good run Bradley Johnson performed one of these roles reasonably and Tom Ince scored goals. This meant the line up was kept consistent as it's easy to keep picking a winning team. Our poor run has coincided with some injuries, suspensions and loss of form that has created instability in selection as Mac searches for a combination that makes 433 work. Instead he should be perhaps looking for a better set up than 433 to get more from the players he has. Two solutions spring to mind for me (I have left in various options for each formation just to highlight flexibility and to avoid personal preferences of some players: 4231 - Carson Christie/Baird - Keogh - Pearce/Shackell - Olsson/Lowe DeSart/Butterfield - Johnson Ince - Hughes - Anya/Russell/Vydra/Camara Bent/Nugent For me this formation offers a couple of things. Firstly it allows for a balance of a midfield two that has one (DeSart/Butterfield) who is able to take the ball from the back four and be a link with the more attacking players and another (Johnson) who offers a more physical presence and protection for the back four. When George Thorne is fit he can offer both but we currently don't have that so this set up gives a way of having both options on the pitch at the same time. The second is it then allows for a more fluid forward line. The 3 behind the front striker have more licence to swap and interchange and players like Ince and Hughes can pick up positions between the opposition's midfield and defence where they can be more dangerous or also arrive late into the box when the ball goes wide to provide goal scoring options (Bryson could be another option in this case). 532/352 depending on whether you class the wingback as midfield or defence! - Carson Keogh - Shackell - Pearce Christie - Butterfield/Hughes/Bryson - DeSart/Johnson - Butterfield/Hughes/Bryson - Olsson/Lowe/Anya Ince/Vydra (number 10) - Nugent/Bent Advantages - 3 centre halves should strengthen the defending in and around the box including set pieces! Provides for 2 up front but giving either Ince or Vydra the chance to operate off a front man and therefore be more of a goal threat around the box than when they play wider. I'm not as convinced by this option even though Chelsea have been very successful using it. our main problem is we don't have Costa we have Bent, we don't have Fabregas we have Butterfield, we don't have Pedro we have Hughes and we don't have Hazard we have Ince! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Pointless changing system when we are going to play 433 with Martin uptop next season. Why change now, only to revert back this summer? And we will revert back, otherwise we wouldnt have signed Martin on a new long-term contract. I know it feels like it isnt working at thr moment, but thats largely due to an imbalance in the squad. We dont have 11 players all at ease in one particular system. Thats the fault of our recruitment in recent years under different types of managers with differing philosophies. What we can do though is work on aspects of our game. Forget results, we are out of the playoff race and also in no danger of going down. We've got 12 games to work on things ahead of next season. Nugent must feature more often if he is to play a part next season, and the same could apply for Bennett too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Pointless changing system when we are going to play 433 with Martin uptop next season. Why change now, only to revert back this summer? And we will revert back, otherwise we wouldnt have signed Martin on a new long-term contract. Quote McClaren (today's presser): "We talked the last time I was here about having a plan B . . . maybe we have to start a bit more open and positive." #dcfcfans Maybe its Plan B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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