jono Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 True Ninos .. But we still need midfielders who aren't static no matter what type of CF we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Ninos said: This is absolutely all true and an excellent response. I see the same thing, and I don't doubt that Martin in this mac 4-3-3 system with the excellent players of vision and quickness around him would be better than what we are seeing now. But to achieve the goal of replicating the past: a) you not only have to get martin but b) you have to get those other players and then c) you have to make it all gel. And any half decent manager will know how to stop us playing that system. Many who beat us bragged that they knew how to shut us down. So you have to be able to adapt to another plan too. Backwards is not the only way forwards and there's more than one way to skin a cat. There are better more modern systems of play than the one Dutch one Mcclaren knows - built on a non pacy mostly stationary solo centre forward. Agree partly with most of it, we do not need to get the same players, the same style players would do. How many times did we lose with a fit Martin starting in the team when Mac was in charge? 15 out of 75 matches. If we had become so predictable to play against this number would be higher. We won 44 out of those matches btw. Agree 4-3-3 isn't the only way to achieve promotuon/play good attacking, fast paced football but we have done previously and we know we can get it to work under Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 44 minutes ago, jono said: True Ninos .. But we still need midfielders who aren't static no matter what type of CF we have Agree. We were banging on about static midfielders under Pearson. Apart from will we really have no good midfield players who actually get open and have ball skills and we never seem intent on addressing it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 21 hours ago, BuckoBeast said: For the last 3 games he's started on the bench, don't think he came on either in the last two. Rotting on the bench. Can't believe we never got him back Think you need to read the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckoBeast Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 48 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: Think you need to read the topic of this thread. Haha only just realised. Wondered why everyone was talking about centre mids rather than Chris Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 20 hours ago, cannable said: Played more accurate long passes than inaccurate, fact that too, not an opinion Briallint and they must of been defence splitting due to all the chances we had. You know what they say about statistics! Give me gut feel any day, and my gut feeling is we are wasting our time with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 02/22/2017 at 20:51, Ninos said: He's found his best position at least. People are in for a big shock when he comes back, mac builds his whole team around him and he does next to nothing. This whole return to the past idea as our best way forward is so sad it's pathetic. You'd be so disappointed if his return was a success! I'd like to say I hope his return goes down a storm just to make you eat your words and then I realised I was a Derby fan and I hope it goes down a storm anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, RodleyRam said: You'd be so disappointed if his return was a success! I'd like to say I hope his return goes down a storm just to make you eat your words and then I realised I was a Derby fan and I hope it goes down a storm anyway! Why would I be disappointed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ninos said: Why would I be disappointed ? Oh you know you just make it sound like an inevitability - glorying in it even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 13 hours ago, RodleyRam said: You'd be so disappointed if his return was a success! I'd like to say I hope his return goes down a storm just to make you eat your words and then I realised I was a Derby fan and I hope it goes down a storm anyway! That is harsh. I am sure @Ninos wants us to win every game, regardless of whether or not Martin is in the team. At the end of the day he is a Derby fan first, just his view is that we should not rely on Martin to be the saviour (or any where near the club ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, rynny said: That is harsh. I am sure @Ninos wants us to win every game, regardless of whether or not Martin is in the team. At the end of the day he is a Derby fan first, just his view is that we should not rely on Martin to be the saviour (or any where near the club ) No one knows if Chris Martin will be a success on his return if he does return as that is not certain even though he signed a new contract at Derby. I expect him to return though and I hope it works out for him and McClaren but I don't expect him to be automatically in the team week in week out next season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofbuxton Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 We need a better central midfield if we are evet to go up: more dynamic - forward thinking rather than sideways all of the time, also a player who can carry the ball and break defensive lines - a bryson of old style player sadly not an inconsistent bryson of now We need goals from midfield - butterfields goal scoring last season has not been matched nor has hendricks or brysons we are sadly very short in this area. A fit and firing thorne would be a perfect addition - de sart tries but he hasnt git the presence or ability at the minute although this might come in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Elsnik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, curtains said: No one knows if Chris Martin will be a success on his return if he does return as that is not certain even though he signed a new contract at Derby. I expect him to return though and I hope it works out for him and McClaren but I don't expect him to be automatically in the team week in week out next season though. All we have to go on is whether or not we have been a better team with Martin than without him. Personally I think we have been better when he has played. I think Mac will pick the team that is going to be the most effective. I do not know if that includes Martin starting every game or not. All I know is that we have some big decisions to make in the summer, we need to get an identity again, get the right players that fit the identity and work from there. If the choice is to go back to how we played previously under Mac so be it, if he tries a different formation/style, so be it. Mac needs to find out who wants to stay and fight for the team and their place in the team and find out who doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, rynny said: All we have to go on is whether or not we have been a better team with Martin than without him. Personally I think we have been better when he has played. I think Mac will pick the team that is going to be the most effective. I do not know if that includes Martin starting every game or not. All I know is that we have some big decisions to make in the summer, we need to get an identity again, get the right players that fit the identity and work from there. If the choice is to go back to how we played previously under Mac so be it, if he tries a different formation/style, so be it. Mac needs to find out who wants to stay and fight for the team and their place in the team and find out who doesn't. I totally agree but it is a difficult situation that McClaren finds himself in regarding making a lot of personal changes as I think it's only about 3 players that are out of contract and some players who are not particularly wanted by McClaren might still sit it out at Derby leaving his options limited in who he can bring in as we have a large squad already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, curtains said: I totally agree but it is a difficult situation that McClaren finds himself in regarding making a lot of personal changes as I think it's only about 3 players that are out of contract and some players who are not particularly wanted by McClaren might still sit it out at Derby leaving his options limited in who he can bring in as we have a large squad already. We may perceive it as difficult but we do not know who Mac doesn't want to keep and out of those he doesn't want to keep who would be happy to leave regardless of where or wages. It may be a case of he wants 12 players out and all 12 players are happy to go, it could be he wants 6 out but none of them want to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The problem of building around Martin is when he is marked out of the game, not on his game [everybody has on off day], is either banned or injured what happens next? Much rather bring in a creative midfielder that can work with Bent, Vydra, Nugent and Martin, than build a team around Martin with this 4-3-3 is the only way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, rynny said: We may perceive it as difficult but we do not know who Mac doesn't want to keep and out of those he doesn't want to keep who would be happy to leave regardless of where or wages. It may be a case of he wants 12 players out and all 12 players are happy to go, it could be he wants 6 out but none of them want to leave. McClaren may perceive when Chris Martin returns hopefully with a fit George Thorne and Craig Forsyth from injuries that we don't need to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofbuxton Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Id say a key addition would be a judge style player - preferably judge himself I think he would offer exactly what we are looking for in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 minute ago, curtains said: McClaren may perceive when Chris Martin returns hopefully with a fit George Thorne and Craig Forsyth from injuries that we don't need to rebuild. I don't think it would be wise to rely on this. George Thorne has all the hallmarks of a player that is never going to play a full season and Forsyth may be heading the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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