DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: Probably been mentioned already but I think Anya would do just fine in the LW role. Has pace, the ability to cover a defender and is happy to put the work in so he would be at least as good as JR on this seasons showing. I think JR is great to have around but for a fair price he is certainly not irreplaceable. 100% agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: They might strengthen the team given the chance and if a team came in for them at a profit to what we paid I would sell them too. We aren't a sell to buy team but all teams should be a sell to strengthen team. Sako has previously stated he wants to stay and fight for his place but since then Palace have signed Schlupp for 12m so who knows Sako's thoughts now. With regards the training side of things it has been known for players to not train that hard but turn up week in week out during matches, just because someone is better in training it is still their performance on a matchday that matters. They've all been here long enough to challenge JR's spot in the team. That none of them have done that says a lot about what JR brings to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: They've all been here long enough to challenge JR's spot in the team. That none of them have done that says a lot about what JR brings to the team. In general they have yes but not under Mc, I think when Mc first came in Weimann, Camara and Blackman were all injured? I could be wrong. Mc has come out and said he has been impressed by Camara in training and Blackman hasnt had a proper chance to impress in training. Weimann looks to be the most out of favour one under Mc at the minute and i'm sure if we got the same money we paid for him the club would sell him, I wouldn't be shocked if he went out on loan this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 33 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: I agree, but if we was able to make a profit on any other member of the squad I dont think there would be any player I wouldn't sell other than Hughes and possibly Carson. I think that shows a little naivety... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 47 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: Ok - from that response I can see I'm trying to have a debate with a brick wall. Shall agree to disagree with you on this. Not a problem, as I see from your response that there is no reason to play Blackman other than he's on our books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I think that shows a little naivety... Why does it? Surely if we can sell a player for a huge price and use the money to strengthen thats a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: Why does it? Surely if we can sell a player for a huge price and use the money to strengthen thats a good thing? It's an over-simplification... An assumption that by selling we would automatically be able to strengthen... And an incredibly risky way to act... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, cheron85 said: It's an over-simplification... An assumption that by selling we would automatically be able to strengthen... And an incredibly risky way to act... Well the club wouldnt sell if we couldnt strengthen (if we need to strengthen). In this situation we wont sell Russell unless we are confident of replacing him with someone as good or better or because we are confident a current player can fill his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, DCFC1388 said: Well the club wouldnt sell if we couldnt strengthen (if we need to strengthen). In this situation we wont sell Russell unless we are confident of replacing him with someone as good or better or because we are confident a current player can fill his role. Right... But for the last few pages you have been advocating selling a player without having any evidence that we are going to have an improvement... If we brought in Gareth Bale I don't think anyone would be arguing that Russell should start ahead of him... However in the absence of someone who is guaranteed to be an improvement, and not needing the money it is a somewhat naive move to sell hoping we can make an improved signing in 13 days OR hoping one of the other players will improve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKWORTHRAM Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 16 minutes ago, cheron85 said: It's an over-simplification... An assumption that by selling we would automatically be able to strengthen... And an incredibly risky way to act... We should be able to strengthen. That's why we pay our scouting/recruitment team (although im still not sure what they do) Its the scouting/recruitments job to find players that improve the squad. If they can't then we need to replace them with someone who can. Obviously we will sign players that just dont fit in or aren't up to scratch. Its inevitable. It happens to the best. Look at Southampton for example. The recruitment there is excellent. 3 or 4 years now they sell players for astronomical amounts and still don't even flirt with relegation. If our recruitment department can't find a better winger than Johnny Russell. Then they shouldn't be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, MACKWORTHRAM said: We should be able to strengthen. That's why we pay our scouting/recruitment team (although im still not sure what they do) Emphasis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Right... But for the last few pages you have been advocating selling a player without having any evidence that we are going to have an improvement... If we brought in Gareth Bale I don't think anyone would be arguing that Russell should start ahead of him... However in the absence of someone who is guaranteed to be an improvement, and not needing the money it is a somewhat naive move to sell hoping we can make an improved signing in 13 days OR hoping one of the other players will improve... my thinking is that the club wouldnt sell Russell unless they had a replacement lined up, whether that is from within the squad or not we dont know, you say it is naive to hope we make an improved signing etc, is it not also naive to not sell Russell for a profit in the hope Russell finds the form he showed 3 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: my thinking is that the club wouldnt sell Russell unless they had a replacement lined up, whether that is from within the squad or not we dont know, you say it is naive to hope we make an improved signing etc, is it not also naive to not sell Russell for a profit in the hope Russell finds the form he showed 3 years ago? Little bit harsh considering just last season he contributed to nearly 20 goals. And the player who seems to be people's preferred replacement, Sako, hasn't done well for nearly 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: you say it is naive to hope we make an improved signing etc, No I'm not, you may want to go back and re-read what I've said. I'm saying it's naive to suggest selling a player when all you have is hope that we will sign an improvement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Ram Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said: We should be able to strengthen. That's why we pay our scouting/recruitment team (although im still not sure what they do) Its the scouting/recruitments job to find players that improve the squad. If they can't then we need to replace them with someone who can. Obviously we will sign players that just dont fit in or aren't up to scratch. Its inevitable. It happens to the best. Look at Southampton for example. The recruitment there is excellent. 3 or 4 years now they sell players for astronomical amounts and still don't even flirt with relegation. If our recruitment department can't find a better winger than Johnny Russell. Then they shouldn't be here. You Sir are spot on. For me the recruitment team has gotten off far too easily in most of the discussions around here lately. Regardless of managers wanting different players etc you'd think identification and suitability would be what they are good at. I'd be asking Sam and Mel if they were happy with what we've had so far. If they put the blame firmly on the previous managers then.......ok, ish. But I'm concerned for our lack of quality even those given only a short time to show it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said: Little bit harsh considering just last season he contributed to nearly 20 goals. And the player who seems to be people's preferred replacement, Sako, hasn't done well for nearly 2 years. yes it is harsh but i meant more in the point of Russell finding the same form he had under Mc previously. Sako has struggled at a higher level, similar to Ince, but Sako is a different type of winger to any we have currently. I think Russell's workrate can be matched by both Anya + Weimann and in terms of his attacking ability I think that can be matched by them too. Camara is a different type of winger to Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, cheron85 said: No I'm not, you may want to go back and re-read what I've said. I'm saying it's naive to suggest selling a player when all you have is hope that we will sign an improvement... but others are hoping Russell can find the same form as he did under Mc before which he has shown no sign of this time under Mc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Ellafella said: Your logical and reasoned argument was like a stone wall until I got to the emboldened part when it became like Tesco own's toilet tissue paper that had been dropped into the bowl and became one big soggy gloopy-ness. Well you know me. I like to keep things interesting rather than win an argument with one stone wall point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, England Ram said: You Sir are spot on. For me the recruitment team has gotten off far too easily in most of the discussions around here lately. Regardless of managers wanting different players etc you'd think identification and suitability would be what they are good at. I'd be asking Sam and Mel if they were happy with what we've had so far. If they put the blame firmly on the previous managers then.......ok, ish. But I'm concerned for our lack of quality even those given only a short time to show it so far. They can't be, can they...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: but others are hoping Russell can find the same form as he did under Mc before which he has shown no sign of this time under Mc? Oook so here's the big question is Russell really out of form ? If you just look at his goals and assist return this season you could argue he is but that doesn't take into account a couple factors, namely that Russell plays his best football on the RW and that our side is unbalanced and needs work to be as good as previous seasons. LW: Apps 48 Mins 3772 Average Rating 7.04 Goals 6 Assists 8 RW: Apps 45 Mins 3687 Average Rating 7.24 Goals 15 Assists 6 The above is stats gathered from whoscored.com over the seasons 13/14, 14/15, 15/16, 16/17 for Russell. When selecting position for stats it appears whoscored counts sub appearances as it's own separate position, so I presume the above is just games where Russell started. It is my opinion from watching Russell is that he is better on the right where he can cut inside and I believe the above stats lend evidence to that view. He certainly has been more productive on the right. Regarding the team balance: Russell hasn't been as productive as usual this season but I think it's very important to note that the rest of the team hasn't been as productive either bar Ince (Who is by the far the exception rather than the rule). The two best examples are Bent and Butterfield; Butterfield grabbed 7 goals in 38 apps (9 sub apps) last year but is yet to grab a goal this year and Darren Bent is one of the most prolific goalscorers in the english game yet only has 3 goals in 22 (10 sub apps) apps this year. Have they both become unproductive players along with Russell or do the problems in the side run a tad deeper. McClaren has returned and we have been better but we are not the same side we were before underneath him in both quality and tactical cohesion. Personally I'd rather back Russell to come good as a squad player when McClaren fixes the issues with rather than the others because he has a better track record and in particularly his better track record comes playing in the system McClaren is working towards rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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