DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Below are the RB/RW + LB/LW combo's under McClaren when Johnny has started. Only in 3 games Russell has started has he not had a proper LB behind him if you don't count Anya, which shows the LB debate behind his performances is invalid. Huddersfield - Christie / Ince + Olsson / Russell Sheff Weds - Christie / Ince + Olsson / Russell Wolves - Christie (Hanson) / Ince + Lowe / Russell Rotherham - Baird / Ince + Lowe / Russell Norwich - Baird / Ince + Lowe / Russell Wigan - Baird / Ince + Olsson / Russell Forest - Baird / Ince + Olsson / Russell Fulham - Baird / Ince + Olsson / Russell B'Ham - Baird / Ince + Olsson (Anya) / Russell Wigan - Baird / Ince + Anya / Russell Norwich - Baird / Ince + Anya / Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: Not really because under the current time under Mc Russell hasnt been anywhere near the level he was before and IMO he wont get back to that level, he has had a consistent run and showed nothing. Ince flourished under Mc before, then went off the boil but is again on fire under Mc - why isn't Johnny? You can't just blame the LB situation as during his run of games he had natural LB's whereas people are writing Camara off when he has had Hanson behind him on both starts? Camara has had a CM behind him for 2 games I'll give you that... When we needed someone even more to help track back and cover... Which he totally failed to do... We got torn apart on that left hand side first half against Leeds because Hanson was having to face off against 2 players coming at him... We're the second lowest scorers in the league... We are coming off the back of Clement and Pearson setting up to play negative football and with a team in chaos after the Pearson debacle... It's a very different time to when McClaren took over last time... Why are you so willing to give Camara the benefit of the doubt but not Russell? Everyone ahead of the back 5 is underwhelming at the moment (Ince included... I actually think he's going to get even better...) so why single out one player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 All conjecture at mo. Waiting until something actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: Camara has had a CM behind him for 2 games I'll give you that... When we needed someone even more to help track back and cover... Which he totally failed to do... We got torn apart on that left hand side first half against Leeds because Hanson was having to face off against 2 players coming at him... We're the second lowest scorers in the league... We are coming off the back of Clement and Pearson setting up to play negative football and with a team in chaos after the Pearson debacle... It's a very different time to when McClaren took over last time... Why are you so willing to give Camara the benefit of the doubt but not Russell? Everyone ahead of the back 5 is underwhelming at the moment (Ince included... I actually think he's going to get even better...) so why single out one player? Your right that Camara was poor against Leeds I dont think anyone could say otherwise. It's not just Camara I am willing to give the benefit of doubt to its Weimann + Blackman as I would like to see them get a consistent run of games under McClaren to see what the can do, they maybe better than Russell, they maybe worse or they could be just the same but until we try who knows? The reason it looks like i'm singling Russell out is because the transfer rumour is around him and whether we should let him leave or not, if it was about Weimann then the debate would be able him. Nobody knows if Russell will rediscover his form or if any of the other wingers can do as well as Russell did before but if the club can make a decent profit on a player and use the money to strengthen then I am all for it. I agree that now is a different time under Mc mainly due to Martin not being here and Thorne being out injured but my point is that Ince has still managed to find some of his form again whereas Russell hasnt despite being given a fair chance, something the other wide men haven't. What will be interesting will be Mc's choices when Blackman is back and Anya is back as a winger, Mc has spoken well of Blackman and Anya started Mc's first 2 games at LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: The half a season he had at Reading was proved it. Just needs confidence (McClaren's speciality). If he was fully fit he'd be playing on the other side of Ince in my opinion. In a career of never really being selected at many clubs shows that a few goals in a four month period at reading shows that the goal scoring was actually a blip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sparkle said: In a career of never really being selected at many clubs shows that a few goals in a four month period at reading shows that the goal scoring was actually a blip. I respect your opinion but, for me, that is a seriously ultra-negative way of looking at a footballers career. Years of barren spells, and then one spell where he was arguably the best forward in the Championship, SURELY show that he DOES have the quality, and just needs the right environment/players around him/style of play to unlock his potential? Saying "oh he only scored all these goals in a freak blip of form" is just such nonsense. But hey, that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: I respect your opinion but, for me, that is a seriously ultra-negative way of looking at a footballers career. Years of barren spells, and then one spell where he was arguably the best forward in the Championship, SURELY show that he DOES have the quality, and just needs the right environment/players around him/style of play to unlock his potential? Saying "oh he only scored all these goals in a freak blip of form" is just such nonsense. But hey, that's just my opinion. You have been watching FA Cup game players - why not sign them all up? One of the reasons is consistency, being able to reproduce the form - as JR is being hammered for supposedly not doing. Blackman has done nothing here, he's been loved, he's had starts, etc. Maybe the stats back up the blip theory. How much did he create when being a goal-scoring machine or was it just being in the right place to pop the ball in the net? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 22 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: Nobody knows if Russell will rediscover his form or if any of the other wingers can do as well as Russell did before This is the whole point though... We don't need the money... We're financially well off and by all accounts living well within our FFP means... So the question is... Why get rid of our (2nd) most consistent winger for the last 3 years if we don't know ANYTHING about the future performance of ANYONE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: This is the whole point though... We don't need the money... We're financially well off and by all accounts living well within our FFP means... So the question is... Why get rid of our (2nd) most consistent winger for the last 3 years if we don't know ANYTHING about the future performance of ANYONE? If it means strengthening the team then yes plus like I also said, Russell has had a fair chance under McClaren again to rediscover his form but hasn't been anywhere near the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You have been watching FA Cup game players - why not sign them all up? One of the reasons is consistency, being able to reproduce the form - as JR is being hammered for supposedly not doing. Blackman has done nothing here, he's been loved, he's had starts, etc. Maybe the stats back up the blip theory. How much did he create when being a goal-scoring machine or was it just being in the right place to pop the ball in the net? I think doing it week in, week out in the championship is a bit different to have a few good games in the FA Cup. Also, 21 appearances for Derby in total, under 3 managers (4 including SMC), in a number of different positions. I don't think that's a fair chance at all. I'd like to see him come back in. Get 10-15 straight starts in the team, and then see how he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: I'd like to see him come back in. Get 10-15 straight starts in the team, and then see how he does. Why on earth should we waste the points that we'll lose giving Blackman 10-15 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Why on earth should we waste the points that we'll lose giving Blackman 10-15 starts. Ok - from that response I can see I'm trying to have a debate with a brick wall. Shall agree to disagree with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: If it means strengthening the team See here you are ASSUMING... 29 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: Russell has had a fair chance under McClaren again to rediscover his form but hasn't been anywhere near the same level. Neither has half the squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said: If it means strengthening the team then yes plus like I also said, Russell has had a fair chance under McClaren again to rediscover his form but hasn't been anywhere near the same level. But in your opinion Weimann, Camara, and Blackman all deserve a chance and therefore would be strengthening the team? If we sold JR and one of these started in his place then they are "better" and we wouldn't need to bring in another LW. Who would strengthen? JR knows the club, the way the gaffer wants to play, and the lads around him. One less than stellar season so far and we get rid? No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Neither has half the squad... I agree, but if we was able to make a profit on any other member of the squad I dont think there would be any player I wouldn't sell other than Hughes and possibly Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, RamsPolls said: Completely agree. Russell is the best out of all of them. However, just because he is the best. It doesn't mean he is up to the standard that we need. If we can get the most amount of money for Russell then I would be willing to sell him for financial reasons. No team in their right mind will pay the sort of money we can get for Russell for Weimann/Camara. Hopefully we bring in some serious quality and have a good LW that we have been crying out for since 2014. Your logical and reasoned argument was like a stone wall until I got to the emboldened part when it became like Tesco own's toilet tissue paper that had been dropped into the bowl and became one big soggy gloopy-ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: But in your opinion Weimann, Camara, and Blackman all deserve a chance and therefore would be strengthening the team? If we sold JR and one of these started in his place then they are "better" and we wouldn't need to bring in another LW. Who would strengthen? JR knows the club, the way the gaffer wants to play, and the lads around him. One less than stellar season so far and we get rid? No thank you. Yes I think after the money we have already spent on them they deserve a fair chance under McClaren but I didnt say they would strengthen the team I meant if the money used from Russell was used to buy someone else to strengthen the team. For example, Sako in my opinion would be an upgrade on Russell as well as providing a different type of winger to what we currently have. Your right JR does know what the gaffer wants to do etc yet hasnt performed? What's the excuse for it? The LB behind him -No, not had a consistent run in the team to impress - No For me Russell hasnt been that good since Mc's previous time here so that's over 18months he hasnt performed. Maybe the first time under Mc was his 'purple patch' which he has struggled to match and live up to, similar to Bryson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just now, DCFC1388 said: Yes I think after the money we have already spent on them they deserve a fair chance under McClaren but I didnt say they would strengthen the team I meant if the money used from Russell was used to buy someone else to strengthen the team. For example, Sako in my opinion would be an upgrade on Russell as well as providing a different type of winger to what we currently have. Your right JR does know what the gaffer wants to do etc yet hasnt performed? What's the excuse for it? The LB behind him -No, not had a consistent run in the team to impress - No For me Russell hasnt been that good since Mc's previous time here so that's over 18months he hasnt performed. Maybe the first time under Mc was his 'purple patch' which he has struggled to match and live up to, similar to Bryson. So if they wouldn't strengthen the team why aren't you more inclined to sell them over Russell? We're not a sell-to-buy club anymore. We don't need to sell Russell to bring anyone in. I can list a dozen wingers who'd be an upgrade over Russell, and Ince for that matter, but that's a wishlist. Sako has stated he wants to stay previously. I'm sure if any one of the three showed in training and application over the past 18 months that they were better than Russell I'm sure they'd be being picked over him. They aren't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Probably been mentioned already but I think Anya would do just fine in the LW role. Has pace, the ability to cover a defender and is happy to put the work in so he would be at least as good as JR on this seasons showing. I think JR is great to have around but for a fair price he is certainly not irreplaceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: So if they wouldn't strengthen the team why aren't you more inclined to sell them over Russell? We're not a sell-to-buy club anymore. We don't need to sell Russell to bring anyone in. I can list a dozen wingers who'd be an upgrade over Russell, and Ince for that matter, but that's a wishlist. Sako has stated he wants to stay previously. I'm sure if any one of the three showed in training and application over the past 18 months that they were better than Russell I'm sure they'd be being picked over him. They aren't though. They might strengthen the team given the chance and if a team came in for them at a profit to what we paid I would sell them too. We aren't a sell to buy team but all teams should be a sell to strengthen team. Sako has previously stated he wants to stay and fight for his place but since then Palace have signed Schlupp for 12m so who knows Sako's thoughts now. With regards the training side of things it has been known for players to not train that hard but turn up week in week out during matches, just because someone is better in training it is still their performance on a matchday that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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