The dynamic between Hughes and Butterfield

[brady1993]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

What has happened to Butterfield's shooting?

He has always carried a goal threat but this season appears to be rushing things and sending the ball over the bar.

Maybe he's trying a bit too hard and needs a bit of reassurance about his place?

I would love to see George back but that's a long way off and BJ is doing fine there for now.

I think you're probably not far off their regarding his shooting. I'm not too worried about it though because I think it will come back and he will start scoring again, he was unlucky not to score against Wolves.

[jono]

I believe with both Butterfield and Johnson there is a huge self belief thing. Far more than with Bryson and Hendrick before them.

Sometimes you see Butterfields footwork, change of pace and surge, looking for one/two's and think .. this boy is good, very good. Then as others have said, he stutters, gets indecisive, takes two touches. Johnson, when he goes with his instincts is a great player. Proper powerful engine room, but there are times when he seizes up, the pass becomes too casual, the tackle tries too hard and ends up clumsy. I reckon both will be good partners for Hughes with the right coaching and management. But bottom line is I am with @brady1993 in wanting George back to pull the strings. When he is at his best we are a powerful force and the rest slips in to place

[eddie]

2 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

What has happened to Butterfield's shooting?

He has always carried a goal threat but this season appears to be rushing things and sending the ball over the bar.

Maybe he's trying a bit too hard and needs a bit of reassurance about his place?

I would love to see George back but that's a long way off and BJ is doing fine there for now.

We're not booing him loudly enough

[Sexydadbod]

I think the thinking behind pushing Johnson higher up once Thorne gets back is to make us more solid defensively, like going to Brighton or Newcastle away. Obviously he wouldn't play so high that he would end up the number 10 but simply to play the box to box role. Hughes to play as the number 10.

So

        Thorne

   Hughes     Butterfield  against the so called lesser teams like Forest where we will dominate the ball

and

         Thorne

   Hughes     Johnson in the tougher games

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 hours ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst I agree that Butterfield can dawdle at times, I think people are exaggerating the nature of it. If you look at the ratio of touches to passes in the last few games it's usually comparable to Hughes suggesting that for the majority of the game he's getting the ball away quick  enough (against Wolves he had 79 touches and made 66 passes, Hughes had 69 touches and made 50 passes). Also with regards to giving the ball away, he currently has a 83.1% pass completion for the season which is really quite good. 

Pass completion wasn't my issue, my issue is giving the ball away when the option of a simple pass isn't taken. Johnson is guilty of it at times as well. I know these guys aren't perfect I have just noticed it more recently.

[rynny]

After Christmas last season Johnson was playing too close to Thorne and affected both of their play. If Johnson is to be the other player with Hughes and Thorne he needs to make sure that he isn't on Thorne's toes all game.

Not sure if this was down to Clement's tactics or Johnson being out of form or a lack of fitness so dropped deeper to be less exposed, I don't know, but when they are both on the pitch it is what he needs to look out for.

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

I think the thinking behind pushing Johnson higher up once Thorne gets back is to make us more solid defensively, like going to Brighton or Newcastle away. Obviously he wouldn't play so high that he would end up the number 10 but simply to play the box to box role. Hughes to play as the number 10.

So

        Thorne

   Hughes     Butterfield  against the so called lesser teams like Forest where we will dominate the ball

and

         Thorne

   Hughes     Johnson in the tougher games

Yeah I can see that stance been useful at times, particularly when we have a fit Thorne.

 

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Pass completion wasn't my issue, my issue is giving the ball away when the option of a simple pass isn't taken. Johnson is guilty of it at times as well. I know these guys aren't perfect I have just noticed it more recently.

Sorry I've done you a bit of disservice by misreading your post. 

I do think though that with pass completion being high suggest that him giving the ball away cheaply proabably isn't very common. It's probably just the case that it really sticks in your (not you specifically @JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta but fans in general) when a simple mistake is made.

[jono]

1 hour ago, rynny said:

After Christmas last season Johnson was playing too close to Thorne and affected both of their play. If Johnson is to be the other player with Hughes and Thorne he needs to make sure that he isn't on Thorne's toes all game.

Not sure if this was down to Clement's tactics or Johnson being out of form or a lack of fitness so dropped deeper to be less exposed, I don't know, but when they are both on the pitch it is what he needs to look out for.

Spot on ! I remember those games very well .. it was when Bradley stopped being Bradley .. he and Thorne kept bumping in to each other duplicating roles and it was chaotic.  

[Rampage]

Butterfield, Hughes and Johnson should be good enough to make up SIX points and squeeze us into sixth place and stay there. Anything better is a bonus. Automatic promotion has gone. I would settle for sixth NOW. On the basis of the last six games we are sixth best in the League with room for a 40% improvement! I have a very complicated algorithm for these calculations but the result always come out at 40% 

[DesertRam]

Definitely agree with Thorne and Johnson treading on each others toes, although we should be able

to solve this, surely.

Also Butters, every time i watch him play, he seems to keep the ball when he has no right to do so, can

be 4/5 players around him, and he'll extricate himself and find a pass, he does however, dawdle and go

back a fair bit - but I wouldn't get rid of him just yet, as i feel we could utilise him a lot better, somebody

suggested earlier that he will improve with Mac and I am sure this will sort it out.

[RadioactiveWaste]

11 hours ago, DesertRam said:

Definitely agree with Thorne and Johnson treading on each others toes, although we should be able

to solve this, surely.

Also Butters, every time i watch him play, he seems to keep the ball when he has no right to do so, can

be 4/5 players around him, and he'll extricate himself and find a pass, he does however, dawdle and go

back a fair bit - but I wouldn't get rid of him just yet, as i feel we could utilise him a lot better, somebody

suggested earlier that he will improve with Mac and I am sure this will sort it out.

I do think Butters will benefit from McClaren. 

[The Key Club King]

Watching Hughes and Butterfield play together, I've noticed in the past how much Hughes gets frustrated with Butterfield's use of the ball. Either holding on too long or playing in the wrong direction. Hughes is not a demonstrably mardy player with his teammates like, say Chris Martin is, but Butters' definitely seems to annoy him. Not sure why this is as the finer intricacies of central midfield play elude me but I would back Hughes over Butters' based on their respective footballing brains.

 

[Warren Hobhead]

6 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

Watching Hughes and Butterfield play together, I've noticed in the past how much Hughes gets frustrated with Butterfield's use of the ball. Either holding on too long or playing in the wrong direction. Hughes is not a demonstrably mardy player with his teammates like, say Chris Martin is, but Butters' definitely seems to annoy him. Not sure why this is as the finer intricacies of central midfield play elude me but I would back Hughes over Butters' based on their respective footballing brains.

 

Never seen anything of the sort, and I barely miss a game home or away. Have you any examples to refer to? I would imagine both are delighted to be back playing in a system that suits them considering the fine form the side's been showing since Butters was moved back inside and Hughes into a role that didn't hamstring him, with Johnson holding it together behind them. 

[Ninos]

6 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

Watching Hughes and Butterfield play together, I've noticed in the past how much Hughes gets frustrated with Butterfield's use of the ball. Either holding on too long or playing in the wrong direction. Hughes is not a demonstrably mardy player with his teammates like, say Chris Martin is, but Butters' definitely seems to annoy him. Not sure why this is as the finer intricacies of central midfield play elude me but I would back Hughes over Butters' based on their respective footballing brains.

 

Good post. I actually agree with this although it's overstated. Butterfield doesn't see channels makes no runs rarely offers a magic pass and he can't tackle. A preponderance of those things are bound to annoy a player with the vision of Hughes. Butterfield is a very average player at best unless he's banging goals in left and right. 

[Warren Hobhead]

26 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Good post. I actually agree with this although it's overstated. Butterfield doesn't see channels makes no runs rarely offers a magic pass and he can't tackle. A preponderance of those things are bound to annoy a player with the vision of Hughes. Butterfield is a very average player at best unless he's banging goals in left and right. 

Must have imagined all this...

 

[The Key Club King]

 

1 hour ago, Warren Hobhead said:

Must have imagined all this...

 

Think that video could have been condensed to about 3 minutes of actual highlights at the most. Powell has been in charge of Huddersfield and Charlton so calling him one of the best players he has managed is not quite putting him in the Messi bracket.

Don't get me wrong, last year I thought Butterfield was poor but knocked in some great goals and I'd say the same about Ince. Butterfield has impressed me in the last few games and I hope there is more to come. I don't think he was truly a first choice last year so with less competition this year it may give him time to establish himself and show his assumed quality. 

[Warren Hobhead]

17 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

 

Think that video could have been condensed to about 3 minutes of actual highlights at the most. Powell has been in charge of Huddersfield and Charlton so calling him one of the best players he has managed is not quite putting him in the Messi bracket.

Don't get me wrong, last year I thought Butterfield was poor but knocked in some great goals and I'd say the same about Ince. Butterfield has impressed me in the last few games and I hope there is more to come. I don't think he was truly a first choice last year so with less competition this year it may give him time to establish himself and show his assumed quality. 

Remember seeing the video on the Youtube thread and thinking the same, it's a bit lengthier than required. But it does show him doing the things some suggest he doesn't or cant do. I also believe he was our best midfielder last year. This season he hasn't been as good but he's not alone. And there are probably mitigating circumstances for that. For them all even. Naming no names Nigel Pearson. 

 

It was only a few weeks ago people on here were hammering Christie. A month or two before that people were actually booing Johnson. Ince doesn't smile. Bent is ready for the knackers yard. It goes on...

 

I definitely agree with you about more to come. That goes for so many of them. And it's a good thing. 

 

 

[Gritstone Ram]

They looked ok today although the opposition weren't up to much .