EssendonRam Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, LeedsCityRam said: No its not, he returned to FC Twente also. Just to clarify, I have no problem with managers or players being ambitious. People are entitled to fulfill their potential & be the best they can be. Hence I'm pleased for Jeff Hendrick & wouldn't begrudge Will Hughes a shot at the Premiership should we not go up again. The tone of a departure is all important in this though. McClaren's situation is different in so far as he had already experienced the heights (England manager, Europa League Cup Final with Boro, 1999 treble success as Man Utd assistant manager) but chose to step down to the second tier because his reputation was in tatters when we hired him in October 2013. He was an assistant manager at QPR when we picked him up. Did he deserve another shot at the bigtime? Yes, once he'd finished his job with us. I felt that he owed us some loyalty in view of the circumstances in which we gave him the job. Had he left once we'd been promoted, different story - I'd have wished him well. However he jumped to the Premiership ahead of us & that is what I found most unpalatable about the situation. And the reason he is back with us (again) is because, like 2013, his reputation has been tarnished by a high profile managerial failure. He couldn't get a job at the top level at present. The last line is obviously true; hence the reference to him being unemployed. I'd also already acknowledged I'd forgotten about the return to Twente. For the 700th time - not a crack at you but an acknowledgement that most on here do not agree - but I have always felt Nac was too honest and tried too hard to please everyone. Of course, he was interested when the Newcastle job was offered. He would've been an idiot not to be. In hindsight, he probably should've left when it was first offered. He didn't. Why not? For mine, it is obvious he told the board about the offer and his interest in it. He decided to stay because (a) he wanted to see us promoted both for Derby and for his CV; and/or (b) he genuinely hadn't made up his mind if he'd leave at season's end. The board then started looking for an appropriate replacement. (We know Clement was approached long before the season had ended.) Mel then came in. Mel (immaturely in my view) cracked the sads over the 'arrangement' and saw it as disloyal on Mac's part. We know other members of the board at the time alluded to Mel being upset at the 'speculation'. At the end of the season, Mac decided to stay. Having missed promotion, he (a) felt he owed Derby and/or (b) realised the risk of the Toon job would be lessened if he had at least won promotion with Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: Vydra, Anya, Blackman, Shackell, Johnson, Butterfield, Ince and Carson Honestly give me Martin, Ward, Dawkins, Buxton, Eustace, Hendrick and Grant over that lot every day of the week. It's only really Butterfield who could definitely slot into what we had under Mac. With Vydra, Ince, Anya and Carson being maybes at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, brady1993 said: The problem is that this is entirely speculative and based on paper talk. All we know for sure is that he turned Newcastle down twice during the season and at the end of the season was sacked. Yes, but there is a difference between ignoring wild speculation and being able to see through someone who is being disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Was doing some analysis last night. We could field a new 11 and in their correct positions who have joined since Macca left: Carson, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Olsson, Johnson, Butterfield, Weimann, Anya, Vydra, Blackman. How many of these would have made the play off final team?????? Imo Carson, Shackell, Anya and maybe Vydra. Sad inditement of the poor purchasing we have seen since 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: How many of these would have made the play off final team?????? Imo Carson, Shackell, Anya and maybe Vydra. Sad inditement of the poor purchasing we have seen since 2014 Imo Carson, Shackell, and Vydra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: Was doing some analysis last night. We could field a new 11 and in their correct positions who have joined since Macca left: Carson, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Olsson, Johnson, Butterfield, Weimann, Anya, Vydra, Blackman. How many of these would have made the play off final team?????? Imo Carson, Shackell, Anya and maybe Vydra. Sad inditement of the poor purchasing we have seen since 2014 I actually think it's zero of them. In Mac's playoff team it was crucial that every player was comfortable on the ball and with our slick passing game. For me out that rules Carson, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Johnson, Weimann and Blackman right off the bat. This leaves Olsson, Butterfield, Anya and Vydra. Olsson isn't as good as Forsyth. Butterfield isn't as good as Hughes and isn't suitable for the job Hendrick/Bryson did. Anya isn't as good as 13/14 Ward. Vydra couldn't do the job that Martin did upfront for us whatsoever. However I do think he could have slotted in as one of the inside forwards either side of Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: Was doing some analysis last night. We could field a new 11 and in their correct positions who have joined since Macca left: Carson, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Olsson, Johnson, Butterfield, Weimann, Anya, Vydra, Blackman. How many of these would have made the play off final team?????? Imo Carson, Shackell, Anya and maybe Vydra. Sad inditement of the poor purchasing we have seen since 2014 I wouldn't worry about that to much, JR, Hughes, Martin are not a shadow of the players they were in the play off season, and if we see a team full of confidence as it was under SM in his first season, I'm sure a lot of opinions will change about the newer players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, europia said: Yes, but there is a difference between ignoring wild speculation and being able to see through someone who is being disingenuous. http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/derby-county-rams-boss-steve-mcclaren-tells-fans/story-25812095-detail/story.html Yes he was oh so ambiguous............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Honestly give me Martin, Ward, Dawkins, Buxton, Eustace, Hendrick and Grant over that lot every day of the week. It's only really Butterfield who could definitely slot into what we had under Mac. With Vydra, Ince, Anya and Carson being maybes at best. Martin was better under McClaren than before or since. Ward was injury prone and couldn't be relied on. Buxton's best run was under McClaren and up until then, many thought he was non-league! Eustace was a passenger, most of the time, but was playing when Keogh and Buxton were playing really well, so gets the credit. Hendrick has always been hit and miss. ---------------------------------- These players all did better under a good coach, so there's no reason why players bought since McClaren left cannot ALSO do better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Honestly give me Martin, Ward, Dawkins, Buxton, Eustace, Hendrick and Grant over that lot every day of the week. It's only really Butterfield who could definitely slot into what we had under Mac. With Vydra, Ince, Anya and Carson being maybes at best. Really......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidoki Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 37 minutes ago, brady1993 said: This myth again..... No myth, I was at the matches.... If I find the time I will go through every match when it happened and there was a few. 42 minutes ago, brady1993 said: You do realise before the injury crisis we were sat in 2nd ? And the following Xmas we were top under PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Martin was better under McClaren than before or since. Ward was injury prone and couldn't be relied on. Buxton's best run was under McClaren and up until then, many thought he was non-league! Eustace was a passenger, most of the time, but was playing when Keogh and Buxton were playing really well, so gets the credit. Hendrick has always been hit and miss. ---------------------------------- These players all did better under a good coach, so there's no reason why players bought since McClaren left cannot ALSO do better now. I get your point but I can only judge them on what I've seen so far and there are several faces who just don't fit. I disagree that Eustace was a passenger, and I'd take a 13/14 Eustace over Johnson without a shadow of a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, toddy said: Really......... Hmmm let's see one group of those players formed part of the best team we've seen in years and the other group is full of players who can barely pass the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: No myth, I was at the matches.... If I find the time I will go through every match when it happened and there was a few. Those games were few and far between otherwise we wouldn't have been able to climb to 2nd. 6 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: And the following Xmas we were top under PC. and your point is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, brady1993 said: Hmmm let's see one group of those players formed part of the best team we've seen in years and the other group is full of players who can barely pass the ball. Confidence affects most, even in Mac's 2nd tenure. I am not even going to comment on Buxton and Ward.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Lokidoki said: No myth, I was at the matches.... If I find the time I will go through every match when it happened and there was a few. I was there too. It's a myth. It's such a football fan trope it's almost laughable at this stage. Every fan of every football club has been guilty of this, but when their team struggles it's always one of two things to them. 1) They've been found out 2) They're not working hard enough Invariably one of these myths come to the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, toddy said: Confidence affects most, even in Mac's 2nd tenure. I am not even going to comment on Buxton and Ward.............. Of course confidence has an effect but Johnson has always been dreadful on the ball. It's the reason why Norwich happily sold him to us despite being their POTY. Whilst I agree that we needed to improve on some of the players such as Buxton and Ward. The fact is we haven't. We've bought Wieman, Camara, Blackman, and Anya since having ward and they are all worse than a fit Ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tombo said: I was there too. It's a myth. It's such a football fan trope it's almost laughable at this stage. Every fan of every football club has been guilty of this, but when their team struggles it's always one of two things to them. 1) They've been found out 2) They're not working hard enough Invariably one of these myths come to the fore. It's as if people expect us to hammer everybody we play against. Sometimes it's not going to click, sometimes we aren't going to play well, teams occasionally will 'do a job' on us. Tottenham 'did a job' on City the other week, should Pep rip up his tactics and start again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 23 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Hmmm let's see one group of those players formed part of the best team we've seen in years and the other group is full of players who can barely pass the ball. those players struggled to pass the ball too during the collapse and prior to McClaren arriving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admira Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 We always hear about our massive collapse under Mac at the end of his tenure but if you look at it, it wasn't actually that bad. Other teams just did better. In April and May, we only lost once in 7 games. March was less pretty with 2 draws and 3 defeats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.