Our players mental block.

[Alph]

Two Pearson interviews after a good night and in both he mentioned how players don't go out purposely to play bad or lose. But something mentally stops them from doing what they can do.

 

Is that pressure from us? The fact we can turn on them so quickly unless they're winning? The moans and groans at every error? 

Or is it the players who have grafted all season to see it come to nothing 3 times all after match 45. Are they scarred by it

Or is it something else?

Just found it interesting that he didn't shrug and say "that's football". He didn't say any of the usual stuff. He specifically mentioned mentality twice. 

Imagine if we as fans allowed them to make mistakes without murdering them at the ipro especially. If we just sucked up the heartbreak to try and keep them high. 

[BOB BIGGS]

Many of the new type of "supporter" wouldn't understand that concept unfortunately. If you turned the clock back 40 years or so, there was mainly a mentality that you supported " through thick and thin". There have always been exceptions to that of course but now it is no longer the majority view. 

If its not sorted in 15 minutes, unrest and all that goes with it seems to take over.

Booing your own players.....great help and just what the opposition wants??

[Yojimbo]

The problem is 40 years ago, supporters still had some form of camaraderie with the players and viewed them as peers. I don't want to speak for everyone of my generation (I'm 31) but for younger people, footballers are multi-millionaire celebrities and our "superiors" (because money's all that matters, of course) and it's hard to feel too much "thick-and-thin" empathy with them when you know that a) even average championship players pull in a week what most in the stands take in several months (Derbyshire's average wage is £22k p/a, and the average championship player is on £200k p/a, and you'd imagine our top "stars" that Badbuy Johnson are pulling seven figures) and b) most of them have little to no affinity with the club and will jump as soon as someone waves a paycheque under their nose. When people feel that far removed from the supporters (I have absolutely zero affinity for any of our players and view them as mentally weak willed charlatans pulling grossly undeserved paycheques who've done nothing but fail for the past three years) it is difficult to fully back them - footballers are no longer sportsman, they are professional entertainers who are supposed to fulfil vicarious wishes. And suporting Derby has been more or less a nightmare since 1999; remember, the younger generation don't have 1975 to fall back on

The main bent of it all is, football is no longer a sport, it's a business and the people on the ground aren't supporters anymore - they are customers, and customers expect value for their money (however unrealistic they consider value to be). 

Football is a wonderful thing; professional football, however, is the drizzling ***** and the further you go up the pyramid the more it stinks. 

[toddy]

Fans groaning has always gone on well since the 70's my era

It was lack of confidence last Saturday two games in, mental block Tuesday three games in- FFS these are professional footballers!

Maybe we are lacking leaders.

[North East Ram]

Loads of interesting and valid points from different perspectives here.

but I still wish we didn't boo and that the groaning was reduced. No matter what, fan's positivity and support will only help and assist the team. Granted, it won't win games alone but it certainly won't hinder our players one bit.

i see our support (when loud and positive) as an incremental positive factor AND its a lot more enjoyable singing your heart out and having a laugh than wallowing in mumbling grumbling despair.

 

 

[Mostyn6]

28 minutes ago, toddy said:

Fans groaning has always gone on well since the 70's my era

It was lack of confidence last Saturday two games in, mental block Tuesday three games in- FFS these are professional footballers!

Maybe we are lacking leaders.

you clearly do not understand the human brain! Being rich and professional has no bearing whatsoever on your mental state. 

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

In a way I actually hope we have a mediocre season hopefully it will flush out some of the extra fair weather fans that we've accumulated after being "successful" for the past few years. Even in my 12 years as a season ticket I've seen some quite poor times, yet we lose one game and people say it's "pathetic" "disgraceful" like its the worst thing that's ever happened to the club. We went a whole season in prem winning one game but only turned on the players in the last game of an abject season. One misplaced pass after 10 mins and Dave from alfreton is shouting foul abuse (probably at Christie) and then banging on the ticket office windows demanding a refund!

[toddy]

39 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

you clearly do not understand the human brain! Being rich and professional has no bearing whatsoever on your mental state. 

Every stadium up and down the country there are groans and moans from home supporters, but not every team is suffering lack of confidence, especially 2 games into the season.

Moans and groans has always gone on, I don't agree with it, but it goes on most grounds not just ours.............

Possibly more underlying issues involved.....

[Ashz09]

The fans play a big part you hear players mention it a lot. Our players used to do it during the good times when the IPro wold be rocking.

 

A lot of commentators including ours used to mention in away games the fact the home fans are getting on there players back. It's exactly what we wanted and you could see the effect. I always remember a manager coming to the IPro saying a early goal is crucial as the fans go quiet and at times get on there players back. That was his key and he's right if we get a early goal we can get behind the team and its mesmerizing but if we don't or we concede early it's like a morgue..  

[Curtains]

Poor  excuse. 

[BathRam72]

I have to say I was watching Sky during our second game and Jeff Stelling said "Second game in and the Derby fans are getting restless - really?"

Says it all really.

[VulcanRam]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

Two Pearson interviews after a good night and in both he mentioned how players don't go out purposely to play bad or lose. But something mentally stops them from doing what they can do.

 

Is that pressure from us? The fact we can turn on them so quickly unless they're winning? The moans and groans at every error? 

Or is it the players who have grafted all season to see it come to nothing 3 times all after match 45. Are they scarred by it

Or is it something else?

Just found it interesting that he didn't shrug and say "that's football". He didn't say any of the usual stuff. He specifically mentioned mentality twice. 

Imagine if we as fans allowed them to make mistakes without murdering them at the ipro especially. If we just sucked up the heartbreak to try and keep them high. 

Good post Alpha, I think there will be an element of players reacting to supporters, but I believe it's only a small element. When we go away and play dreadfully, that can't be laid at the door of 1500-2000 supporters. Not Barnsley per se as we tend to take a lot more, but you get my point. 

It's a combination of a number of factors, of which the support is one. Your second point is nearer the money; there seems to be a collective fragility in the current squad. Maybe its leaders, maybe its management, maybe it's a lack of the right type of personality in the dressing room. Maybe as you say, they are scarred by three years of going close. 

It'll be a combination of a number of things built up over time. But yes, the home support can certainly help.

@Yojimbo makes some really valid points as well.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, VulcanRam said:

It's a combination of a number of factors...there seems to be a collective fragility in the current squad. Maybe its leaders, maybe its management, maybe it's a lack of the right type of personality in the dressing room.

Maybe as you say, they are scarred by three years of going close. 

It'll be a combination of a number of things built up over time.

This.

[BOB BIGGS]

I'm sure there are lots of different views on this and many good points made already. The thing is (for me) that while football is big business now rather than 40 years ago, I carry a connection with the Club that has everything to do with me being a supporter and nothing to do with me being a " Customer ". If I wanted to get value for money, I'd support Barcelona or any other Club who will win most games and give me a "return" on my investment.

I don't expect the same from DCFC and that's where I see things differently. I expect players to do their best and management to make as many correct decisions as is reasonable. That hasn't been happening over the last few years and I understand and share the frustration felt. However, no booing from me whatsoever and no obsessional behaviour towards certain players who are struggling. At the end of the day, they should lose their place if someone is better but don't need to be put to the sword by the fans along the way.

We are in a tough League and we will win and lose when we aren't expected to. It's going to be a long season?

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, BOB BIGGS said:

I expect players to do their best and management to make as many correct decisions as is reasonable. That hasn't been happening over the last few years

what?

are you for real?

1999-2014 had 2 relegations, 6+ relegation fights, 1 play-off loss and 1 play-off win and a whole load of nothingness in the mix too. Three amigos, Phil Brown, players like Dean Holdsworth, Kevin Poole and Nick ******* Chadwick! Not to mention the likes of Conor Doyle and Michael Boulding.. But YOU think the last few years have been the problem?

[RadioactiveWaste]

They perhaps need a group bondage session to bring back the team spirit and work out their frustrations with each other.

 

[ewe beauties]

We went to Preston last night and watched the players visibly change.You are so right to raise the question of the fans influencing their mental state.

We woke up, got behind them, and Johnny Russell, especially, seemed to respond with extra pace.

We suck the life out of these players; they know how we're feeling.

Some fans are so self-conscious and look like they daren't join in, and just yell support. Simply shouting 'come on' as they're running down the wing really makes a difference.

The man in front of us complained that we were getting loud and 'over-excited' but it worked- a few kids joined in and the atmosphere rose- AND IT WORKED!!! WE SCORED- and I know we influenced that game.

So instead of turning round and sniggering at people who are trying to raise the atmosphere just try shouting ANYTHING as the players run- they were busting a gut last night as we raised our game.

If you can't be bothered just stay at home, and let us get on with supporting our team.

[BondJovi]

Interesting that in recent days we have had @Mostyn6 booing thread, the brilliant Murrays not Henmans and now now this one. Are more people starting to come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with our players footballing ability or their work rate but a mental fragility that we can't physically see so therefore can't quantify?

I said in the moaning about Pearson thread that I thought he was the right man for the job because I believed he would sort out what I perceived to be a mental weakness within the team but I was concerned that he was changing the footballing style. I feel somewhat reassured that in recent interviews Pearson has focused on this point about mental weakness. This is not something you could see in training. Other posters in this thread have expressed nicely the possible causes for this weakness. But to me this is clear evidence of Pearson managing the players and perhaps post Wembley what these players have needed is stronger management.

The solution? A leader in the team? A strong personality to pull everyone together, we have a team of nice guys. Do we need to break it up? That is out of our hands but this team certainly needs to be supported fully, get behind the players and give them vocal support. Who knows, you might find yourself enjoying matches more and the players might enjoy playing at home!

[cheron85]

7 hours ago, Alpha said:

Two Pearson interviews after a good night and in both he mentioned how players don't go out purposely to play bad or lose. But something mentally stops them from doing what they can do.

 

Is that pressure from us? The fact we can turn on them so quickly unless they're winning? The moans and groans at every error? 

Or is it the players who have grafted all season to see it come to nothing 3 times all after match 45. Are they scarred by it

Or is it something else?

Just found it interesting that he didn't shrug and say "that's football". He didn't say any of the usual stuff. He specifically mentioned mentality twice. 

Imagine if we as fans allowed them to make mistakes without murdering them at the ipro especially. If we just sucked up the heartbreak to try and keep them high. 

I don't boo our players... I don't like it... But I also don't think that's it either...

I think we've had a series of managers who weren't obvious winners... Who have never had to deal with the tag of 'favourites' for anything... They're managers who've had their success with underdogs or unexpected sources...

I think when Smacca first came in they were the unexpected team... The next season the weight of expectation crushed them... Then last season all the good work was undone by Clement and Wassall had to go about trying to fix it...

The thing I thought Pearson that he had a Leicester side which were tipped amongst the favourites (whether good enough or not) for 3 seasons and didn't deliver for 2 of them... 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

The thing I thought Pearson that he had a Leicester side which were tipped amongst the favourites (whether good enough or not) for 3 seasons and didn't deliver for 2 of them... 

But he did deliver. The point being he has done it, the players will respond differently. Interesting last season when Redknapp came in - comments from the players about his experience, etc. 

Often what separates good sportsmen from excellent ones is just that little extra, usually mental, in knowing what it takes to not just get to the line but get over it.