Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, Mostyn6 said: because they're clueless fanboys using money and Man City as a toy or status symbol. If you think the owners are interested in legacy and not glory, I suggest putting the crack pipe down. I bet they're already thinking of his replacement. I'd say you're the clueless one, not them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: this time last year @Bris Vegas you were certain that Derby were not good enough to finish in the top 8, now you're saying only tweaks were needed for promotion? Hmmm. Flip Flop Think you're wrong there. As I remember it he predicted the exact position of all 92 league teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 this thread is quite enlightening, albeit you don't mention the top 8, just that loads will finish above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: No you you said his short term aim was to get promoted. I'm guessing Guardiola does not have the short term aim of winning the league or champions league then? No links to the articles where the remits of the respective managers were spelled out, or were they in one of your comic book articles? So Derbys recruitment has not been as bad as you have been telling us then if Pearson only needed to make a few tweaks? And just to get this clear, you expected Pearson to pave the way for long term success in 9 games? You think Pearson was not bought in for long term success then?! Your self profession of being an expert in football is hilarious...what are your qualifications in football out of interest? Why are you suggesting that I take up another sport? Because I disagree with your view? Wow. Sums up your arrogance. I'm sure he would like to win the league and CL in the short-term, but that is not his job remit. He wasn't brought in to win the league and CL in his first season. City's owners aren't idiots. They want long.term success. I will provide links a little later when I'm not working. But they're not hard to find. Derby finished in the top six last season. Our recruitment has been woeful in the past two years as we've brought in a number of players who are not suited to the 433 system. We finished in the top six last year. If we had gone out and bought a top quality LW, AM, perhaps RB and a like-for-like competition for Martin and then we would have the tools to get promoted. That's all we needed. Instead Pearson got rid of Martin, bought in Anya and Vydra who don't fit and proceeded to play a formation in which none of our players are suited for. I didn't expect Pearson to pave the way for long-term success, we already have a system and a good number of players (who a good few are unfortunately injured right now) that can help pave the way for not only promotion but PL survival. Carson, Forsyth, Pearce, Keogh, Thorne, Hughes, Ince and Martin are eight players who are ideal for the 433. A quality RB, AM and LW and we would be laughing. (say an Ince on the left, a Bryson of 2013/14 and Wisdom of 2013/14). I wouldn't classify myself as a self-professed expert, I'm not... But some posts from you guys in this thread are beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: this thread is quite enlightening, albeit you don't mention the top 8, just that loads will finish above us. Re-read the opening post. I said I thought we'd miss out on the playoffs, based largely on our inconsistent form at the time and the fact we had a tougher run of games than Sheff Wed and Ipswich. So... How did you manage to get 'we aren't good enough to finish in the top 8' from that? We were good enough to get automatic promotion last season. We just didn't play our cards right and drifted away from what we exceled at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Re-read the opening post. I said I thought we'd miss out on the playoffs, based largely on our inconsistent form at the time and the fact we had a tougher run of games than Sheff Wed and Ipswich. So... How did you manage to get 'we aren't good enough to finish in the top 8' from that? We were good enough to get automatic promotion last season. We just didn't play our cards right and drifted away from what we exceled at. so why weren't Man City just inconsistent and with a tough run of games then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: I'm sure he would like to win the league and CL in the short-term, but that is not his job remit. He wasn't brought in to win the league and CL in his first season. City's owners aren't idiots. They want long.term success. I will provide links a little later when I'm not working. But they're not hard to find. Derby finished in the top six last season. Our recruitment has been woeful in the past two years as we've brought in a number of players who are not suited to the 433 system. We finished in the top six last year. If we had gone out and bought a top quality LW, AM, perhaps RB and a like-for-like competition for Martin and then we would have the tools to get promoted. That's all we needed. Instead Pearson got rid of Martin, bought in Anya and Vydra who don't fit and proceeded to play a formation in which none of our players are suited for. I didn't expect Pearson to pave the way for long-term success, we already have a system and a good number of players (who a good few are unfortunately injured right now) that can help pave the way for not only promotion but PL survival. Carson, Forsyth, Pearce, Keogh, Thorne, Hughes, Ince and Martin are eight players who are ideal for the 433. A quality RB, AM and LW and we would be laughing. (say an Ince on the left, a Bryson of 2013/14 and Wisdom of 2013/14). I would classify myself as a self-professed expert, I'm not... But some posts from you guys in this thread are beyond ridiculous. So how was Pearsons job remit different to Guardiola's? Did Morris say he didn't want long term success, just a short term promotion? You may well find articles saying that City wanted Guardiola to bring long term success (although this clearly doesn't mean that he should not be challengingfor honours in the short term) but I bet my bottom dollar you won't find anything saying anything different about Pearson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Despite City's poor form, Guardiola still makes it into my top 3 bald managers shortlist according to my analysis . However, he trails Zidane and the current best bald manager in the world Jorge Sampaoli. Viva Sampaoli! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: Despite City's poor form, Guardiola still makes it into my top 3 bald managers shortlist according to my analysis . However, he trails Zidane and the current best bald manager in the world Jorge Sampaoli. Viva Sampaoli! Does McClaren qualify for that category yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Does McClaren qualify for that category yet? Only when hair island is submerged at high tide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 In my eyes all managers should be bald to strike fear into the player's heads. It's statistically proven that people are more likely to be afraid of bald people than those with lots of hair because they are assumed to be 'tougher'. That is why in an ideal world the centre backs on a team would be bald like jap Stam because opposition strikers would be scared of them. 8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Does McClaren qualify for that category yet? Not yet I'm afraid but he qualifies into the little amount of hair category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 It amazed me all the pre-season focus was on Guardiola v Mourinho and so many bought into the idea that it would be a two-horse race. Well, it's a five-horse race. For second place. Who would have thought it? Chelsea - managed by that ordinary Italian with hardly a trophy or accolade to his name - coming out of nowhere to be leading the pack by seven points and some ten points ahead of Guardiola's City. How did the experts miss that one? Yes, Pep needs time and could very well be a success given time. Any rational man can see that. But you could say the exact same about any number of managers in their respective jobs - Mourinho, Klopp, Pochettino, even Wenger. So I have no sympathy for Pep. At the end of the day, football is a highly competitive, emotive and sometimes irrational sport. When it all boils down to it, being number one is the only thing that matters. And for someone billed as 'the man to change the face of English football', there will be no crumbs of comfort in finishing second, third or fourth. Make no mistake, Pep's current predicament will be a huge dent to his ego and most certainly galling to all of the experts and all of his followers who built up him and really, truly believed the hype. To see the 'super manager' look a mere mortal in a league which some argue is only the second or third best in the world, this must be very distressing. I was a fool too, I must admit. I hold my hands up. I thought City would finish second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jourdan said: . To see the 'super manager' look a mere mortal in a league which some argue is only the second or third best in the world, this must be very distressing. Good post, but given that the Premier League is crammed full top class managers I don't think anyone can use the inevitable failure of all but one of them as evidence that the Premier League is the strongest in the world. Taking just Pep, Jose, Klopp and Conte out of that bunch. 3 of those will be deemed failures this season, because as you rightly say, winning the league is what matters, barring a champions league win. Now if one of them were to finish outside the top 4 altogether, which obviously may well happen, then that would be seen as a proper catastrophic failure. There will be no explaining that away if it happens to Pep, Jose (unless he sneakily wins the Europa League) or Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, Highgate said: Good post, but given that the Premier League is crammed full top class managers I don't think anyone can use the inevitable failure of all but one of them as evidence that the Premier League is the strongest in the world. Taking just Pep, Jose, Klopp and Conte out of that bunch. 3 of those will be deemed failures this season, because as you rightly say, winning the league is what matters, barring a champions league win. Now if one of them were to finish outside the top 4 altogether, which obviously may well happen, then that would be seen as a proper catastrophic failure. There will be no explaining that away if it happens to Pep, Jose (unless he sneakily wins the Europa League) or Klopp. Highgate, the debate about which league is the best in the world has been done to death and I'm sure you'd agree that it can't be proven conclusively one way or another, as everyone's criteria or perspective will be different. Don't get me wrong, you can't take anything away from Mourinho and Guardiola. They deserve all the adulation and respect they get - they have achieved an awful lot in football and are rightfully considered two of the world's best managers. But particularly the way in which the press and football fans were falling all over themselves to crown Pep as the new king and Jose the only rival to the throne, it seemed daft to me. People were talking about the first meeting at Old Trafford as a 'title decider'. I disagree that three of those managers will be deemed failures. It's all relative to expectations and the expectations were unfathomably greater for Pep compared to the others. The media frenzy around Guardiola was akin to when Mourinho first arrived at Chelsea. The difference being Mourinho lived up to the billing. Guardiola, as yet, has not. Klopp will emerge with credit if Liverpool finish in the top four because let's be honest, he's a media darling and it's probably the hardest job out of the top six all things considered. Conte will be hailed a genius. More people will be waking up to Pochettino's brilliance. Even Mourinho's job was more of a task than many let on, and not even signing Pogba and Ibrahimovic glossed over that. But with Pep, the levels of hyperbole were incredible. So yes, the way he was built up, I expected more from Pep at this point. But he still has 17 games to work his magic. Let's see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Indeed @Jourdan, can't find much to disagree with there. Yeah the hype reached a new level with Pep's arrival, but most things are over-hyped in the Premier League...and beyond for that matter. How many times do teams play games that are dubbed 'must-win' these days? However, they somehow seem to carry on afterwards, regardless of whether they win or not. I agree that it's difficult to compare the quality of the respective leagues. The only real clues are the competitive games between the clubs from the various leagues, but seeing as these are few, and only involve the teams at the top of the leagues, then they can only give hints rather than conclusive answers. One might have expected that given the PL vast wealth advantage over the other leagues that it might be a class apart by now, but that does not seem to be the case. Nevertheless it is still high quality, entertaining and competitive. Yeah Klopp and Jose will be forgiven for not winning the league this year if they finish in the top 4, but that won't last for long, i think both will be expected to deliver next year. That's what they were hired for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, Highgate said: Indeed @Jourdan, can't find much to disagree with there. Yeah the hype reached a new level with Pep's arrival, but most things are over-hyped in the Premier League...and beyond for that matter. How many times do teams play games that are dubbed 'must-win' these days? However, they somehow seem to carry on afterwards, regardless of whether they win or not. I agree that it's difficult to compare the quality of the respective leagues. The only real clues are the competitive games between the clubs from the various leagues, but seeing as these are few, and only involve the teams at the top of the leagues, then they can only give hints rather than conclusive answers. One might have expected that given the PL vast wealth advantage over the other leagues that it might be a class apart by now, but that does not seem to be the case. Nevertheless it is still high quality, entertaining and competitive. Yeah Klopp and Jose will be forgiven for not winning the league this year if they finish in the top 4, but that won't last for long, i think both will be expected to deliver next year. That's what they were hired for. I can't argue with that. The Premier League is one big marketing machine - Twitter, forums, Soccer Saturday, Super Sunday all feeds it though. But some of the time, it does live up to it. Some of the time. I would say with some confidence that the top clubs in Spain perform more consistently in Europe which lends itself to the view that La Liga is the best league in the world. And there are clubs like Bayern and Juventus who would claim to be at the top table alongside Barcelona and Real Madrid. But outside of El Clasico, I don't find myself all that compelled to watch European football, especially as I live outside the UK now. Well you're right to say that the pressure on Klopp and Mourinho will evolve, but much of that will depend on what the other clubs around them do. You could say with one extra year's experience for Conte, Guardiola and Pochettino, they will all be one year older, one year wiser, and so next year it will be even harder for United and Liverpool to break their respective ducks. At this stage, it's anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Pep cracking under pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: Pep cracking under pressure? Did you watch the game today? City probably played the best I've seen them all season. A fair reflection of the game would have been around 7-1. Replace Sterling for someone like Robben and City would have scored at least five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, Bris Vegas said: Did you watch the game today? City probably played the best I've seen them all season. A fair reflection of the game would have been around 7-1. Replace Sterling for someone like Robben and City would have scored at least five. give my nana a beard and she might become my grandad! I was referring to his post match interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said: give my nana a beard and she might become my grandad! I was referring to his post match interview. As much as he would like to, I'm pretty sure Guardiola has some sort of moral code where he just doesn't want to place blame on the referee. He should be blaming his players for the number of missed chances, but it's rare these days to hear a manager throw his own players under the bus. I guess that's why he comes accross as weird. Wenger comes accross as a right moaner too, but as a staunch protector of his own players, I guess there isn't much else he can say? I honestly believe Guardiola has created his own problems by not being ruthless enough. He should have made vast changes to the team last summer, but in an arrogant sort of way, he probably thought he could get the likes of Raheem Sterling to play like Arjen Robben. He has probably now long come to the conclusion that his current squad is nowhere near good enough. He needs to make big changes this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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