Richard Keogh - always got a mistake in him

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, curtains said:

Their biggest mistakes 

So not selling Keogh was a bigger mistake by Pearson than bit replacing Martin/ not getting rid of him in the first place?

Ok then

[Curtains]

34 minutes ago, Alpha said:

When has football ever worked like that?

John Terry has win the Champions League. 

Chalk and Cheese.   

 

[Curtains]

28 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

So not selling Keogh was a bigger mistake by Pearson than bit replacing Martin/ not getting rid of him in the first place?

Ok then

Keogh is the common denominator 

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, Moist One said:

the ONE constant in all our supposed under-achievement and uninspired performances over the last 4yrs is Keogh. We cannot blame Bryson, Russell, Hendrick, Buxton, Hughes or Martin, as none of them are regular starters now. BUT the same ineptitude remains. The same shambolic catastrophes recur.

It's not about sheer ability, it's not about attitude, it's not about average performances (against the lesser teams). It's in the percentages. It's the points thrown away weakly.

contrary to what you might think, I get no pleasure whatsoever in knowing I was right when I said 2-3 years ago that McClaren being sacked meant Keogh staying, which meant we are staying where we are in the football world. I was right.

I don't really understand the logic here. Are you saying one player determines a teams whole season? 

If so, and Keoghost is the the constant, then we would finish in the same league position every year? 

Was Le Tissier the reason Southampton never won anything? How about Gerrard at Liverpool was it his fault they never won the Premier League? Sanchez at Arsenal? All constants in their teams throughout unsuccessful periods.

If it is Keogh holding us back then surely this is reflected in our defensive stats?

You may think that us still being in The Championship proves your take on Keogh as being right but I would say there are more people, much higher qualified, who would say you are wrong.

 

[Curtains]

Keogh has such a big role at Derby. 

I don't rate him so nothing new there. 

 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I don't really understand the logic here. Are you saying one player determines a teams whole season? 

If so, and Keoghost is the the constant, then we would finish in the same league position every year? 

Was Le Tissier the reason Southampton never won anything? How about Gerrard at Liverpool was it his fault they never won the Premier League? Sanchez at Arsenal? All constants in their teams throughout unsuccessful periods.

If it is Keogh holding us back then surely this is reflected in our defensive stats?

You may think that us still being in The Championship proves your take on Keogh as being right but I would say there are more people, much higher qualified, who would say you are wrong.

 

I'd say that he flatters to deceive managers.  

All out recent managers haven't covered themselves in glory have they. 

[cannable]

31 minutes ago, curtains said:

Keogh is the common denominator 

Again.

As was Peter Whittingham in;

• Three failed play-off campaigns

• A mid-season collapse whilst top resulting in mid-table

• Needing just two points from the final four league games to clinch a play-off spot and failing to do so

• A lost cup semi-final

• A lost cup-final.

And yet after all that he The Championship with Cardiff! 

It's football, not an exact science. Keogh isn't the substance preventing a chemical reaction. It's far too simplistic without any footballing discussion that one player can undermine an entire team over the course of six years.

[Coneheadjohn]

On 17/09/2017 at 09:17, Key clubber said:

Was awful yesterday , right from the kick off , his positioning at times during the game yesterday was abysmal , whenever Bristol attacked Keogh tended to get his head down, sprint back with complete disregard to who he should be picking up often leaving his man free . Whenever he gets the ball he's like Usain Bolt on ecstasy , he puts the fear of God into his own players when he gets the ball , to the point Carson yesterday had to get him to calm down. Unfortunately seems undroppable know matter how many mistakes he makes.

 

 

Welcome onboard mate,can't argue with you because I haven't seen it so respect your opinion and take on the game.

It worrys me as Keogh has been the best most consistent player so far this year,if he starts having off days we are in trouble.

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, curtains said:

I'd say that he flatters to deceive managers.  

All out recent managers haven't covered themselves in glory have they. 

So you honestly put more faith in your own judgement of players than that of McClaren and Clement, who have held coaching roles at some of the biggest clubs in the land?

I won't mention the international managers that have chosen him because they only see him playing a handful of times a season, but our manager gets to see him on a daily basis and have had him as the first name on the team sheet for the last 4 seasons, does that not tell you anything?

[Cam the Ram]

36 minutes ago, curtains said:

Keogh is the common denominator 

Keogh is the common denominator in these results below in that he didn't feature in them. A win percentage of 28.6%. Now, I might be slightly off in my calculations, but I work out Keogh to have a win percentage of 45.5% throughout his time at Derby. It's good to see we'd not struggle without him .... 

[Curtains]

 

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you honestly put more faith in your own judgement of players than that of McClaren and Clement, who have held coaching roles at some of the biggest clubs in the land?

I won't mention the international managers that have chosen him because they only see him playing a handful of times a season, but our manager gets to see him on a daily basis and have had him as the first name on the team sheet for the last 4 seasons, does that not tell you anything?

Clough signed him .

The other managers inherited him. 

Martin O,Neil uses him only sparingly. 

It's not mandatory to rate him is it. 

[cannable]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you honestly put more faith in your own judgement of players than that of McClaren and Clement, who have held coaching roles at some of the biggest clubs in the land?

I won't mention the international managers that have chosen him because they only see him playing a handful of times a season, but our manager gets to see him on a daily basis and have had him as the first name on the team sheet for the last 4 seasons, does that not tell you anything?

I value my own judgement of players over Clement's to be fair 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Keogh is the common denominator in these results below in that he didn't feature in them. A win percentage of 28.6%. Now, I might be slightly off in my calculations, but I work out Keogh to have a win percentage of 45.5% throughout his time at Derby. It's good to see we'd not struggle without him .... 

Oh wow he must be good. 

We are still in  the Championship right 

 

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, curtains said:

Clough signed him .

The other managers inherited him. 

Martin O,Neil uses him only sparingly. 

It's not mandatory to rate him is it. 

Inherited and chose not to offload him, despite supposed interest and decent fees being mentioned.

Not mandatory to rate him at all. 

On his day he can be excellent, on a bad day he's a liability, most Championship defenders are, quite a few Premier League defenders are.

Look at our defensive record over the last 4 seasons and seriously tell me our defence has been a constant problem.

To blame everything on one player is absolutely bizarre.

[Cam the Ram]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

Oh wow he must be good. 

We are still in  the Championship right 

 

Wildschut is still in the Championship but you seem to think he would be the difference in us getting promoted and staying down. You really need to think about what you're posting before you actually do it. You often post things that completely contradict something you've said a few days ago in other threads.

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, cannable said:

I value my own judgement of players over Clement's to be fair 

The signings were poor but to be fair he hardly played them, surely that shows he could see on the training pitch that they were not good.

[Curtains]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

Inherited and chose not to offload him, despite supposed interest and decent fees being mentioned.

Not mandatory to rate him at all. 

On his day he can be excellent, on a bad day he's a liability, most Championship defenders are, quite a few Premier League defenders are.

Look at our defensive record over the last 4 seasons and seriously tell me our defence has been a constant problem.

To blame everything on one player is absolutely bizarre.

It's not a witch hunt but I just don't rate him as a Captain or a defender .

Others do and I'm sure he rates himself. 

People think nothing of criticising Pearce or Shackell or Butterfield etc etc 

 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, Cam the Ram said:

Wildschut is still in the Championship but you seem to think he would be the difference in us getting promoted and staying down. You really need to think about what you're posting before you actually do it. You often post things that completely contradict something you've said a few days ago in other threads.

I don't rate Keogh what don't you get about that.  You lambasted Wildshut he scored the winner st Sheff U on Saturday. Goals win games. Defenders need to keep the goals out 

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, curtains said:

It's not a witch hunt but I just don't rate him as a Captain or a defender .

Others do and I'm sure he rates himself. 

People think nothing of criticising Pearce or Shackell or Butterfield etc etc 

 

But that's the thing, it is a witch hunt. For the majority of the time over the last 4 years Keogh has been our best defender.

We've consistently had a defence amongst the best 6 in the league. Despite the midfield protection in front of the back 4 being regularly depleted.

We've broken records.

He's won POTY awards.

It's clearly a witch hunt.

Ask the question why so many of his mistakes seem to be punished, where are his fellow defenders digging him out of jail the way he does for them?

[Cam the Ram]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

I don't rate Keogh what don't you get about that.  You lambasted Wildshut he scored the winner st Sheff U on Saturday. Goals win games. Defenders need to keep the goals out 

I completely understand that you don't rate Keogh, but using reasons such as "we're still in the Championship so he's bad" is just silly. I bet if I asked you to name players you'd want us to sign to replace him your list would include some people from the Championship. And as for the Wildschut goals win games comment; He's scored 2 since signing for Norwich. Russell who I'm sure you also want rid of has scored the same number as him. Of course though, because Wildschut doesn't play for us he's amazing but Russell does play for us so he's awful. Which brings us right back to my point, you regularly contradict yourself.