Bucko V Shacks

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

not ridiculous at all. Shackell flatters to deceive, he's the Kenny Miller of defenders.

He looks the part, but gives us no real advantage. He's just a standard player. I think the fact he's white and English means he gets a better review. But he lacks composure, bravery, commitment, pace, aerial ability from width and most importantly, he doesn't read the game well. He makes a lot of blocks because he doesn't snuff danger at source.

Can you imagine Buxton against Marcus Rashford at full tilt. 

[Sparkle]

Shackell is the better defender in my opinion in various aspects which is his job, in terms on distributing the football he is second best to Buxton if either was capable of both with additional pace well they would be playing at a high profile 'top European club'

we are lucky to have both ( especially Buxton who is willing to wait and appreciate his chance)

[Curtains]

Buxton vs this.  

 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, curtains said:

Can you imagine Buxton against Marcus Rashford at full tilt. 

I may be wrong but sure Buxton has coped against far better players than Rashford when we played Premier League teams in cup competitions. Didier Drogba springs to mind.

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Enough about your sex life, back to the conversation...

Cheap shot .

Shackell get it forward .

Dont care if there is no one there just get it forward .

 

 

[Mostyn6]

8 minutes ago, curtains said:

Can you imagine Buxton against Marcus Rashford at full tilt. 

Marcus Rashford plays in the Premier League. DERBY are in the championship.

I imagine Rashford would cause equal problems to Keogh, Shackell and Buxton, but I imagine only Buxton will rough him up enough to give him something to think about.

How did Shackell handle Andre Gray?

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I may be wrong but sure Buxton has coped against far better players than Rashford when we played Premier League teams in cup competitions. Didier Drogba springs to mind.

What was the score did Chelsea win 

Honestly mate I think you are on the wind up here. 

Have you taken up trolling. 

 

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Marcus Rashford plays in the Premier League. DERBY are in the championship.

I imagine Rashford would cause equal problems to Keogh, Shackell and Buxton, but I imagine only Buxton will rough him up enough to give him something to think about.

How did Shackell handle Andre Gray?

No idea how he handled Andre Gray but I think he would do ok as he did last season in the Premier  League  

Buxton has hardly played any football for 2 years. 

We aspire to the Premier League don't we and I hope it's next season .

i think Shackell is more likely to get us there than Buxton in the playoffs 

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

No idea how he handled Andre Gray

did you not watch the Burnley game a couple of months ago?

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, curtains said:

Cheap shot .

Shackell get it forward .

Dont care if there is no one there just get it forward .

 

 

Pull yourself together man.

Do you actually read the contents of the thread or just decide what you want to say when you are the title of it?

Do you seriously see no problem with Shackells distribution?

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Pull yourself together man.

Do you actually read the contents of the thread or just decide what you want to say when you are the title of it?

Do you seriously see no problem with Shackells distribution?

I don't see any problem at all with our Championship back 4 the problems are further up the field. 

What do you expect from Keogh and Shackell distribution wise Bobby Moore.   

As Mostyn says we are a Championship team  and we are about where we should be in the league right now without Hughes  

 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, curtains said:

I don't see any problem at all with our Championship back 4 the problems are further up the field. 

What do you expect from Keogh and Shackell distribution wise Bobby Moore.   

 

I have no problem with Keoghs distribution.

With Shackell I would like to see him stop killing the ball dead, before taking 10 seconds to pass the ball at snails pace.

[Ghost of Clough]

34 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

not ridiculous at all. Shackell flatters to deceive, he's the Kenny Miller of defenders.

He looks the part, but gives us no real advantage. He's just a standard player. I think the fact he's white and English means he gets a better review. But he lacks composure, bravery, commitment, pace, aerial ability from width and most importantly, he doesn't read the game well. He makes a lot of blocks because he doesn't snuff danger at source.

Isn't that the sign of a good defender? Even Maldini hardly made a tackle and only did "if he'd made a mistake" as a last resort. Xabi Alonso doesn't even recognise tackling as a quality. 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I have no problem with Keoghs distribution.

With Shackell I would like to see him stop killing the ball dead, before taking 10 seconds to pass the ball at snails pace.

We all have our opinions .

You have every right to yours. 

As  the great Brian Clough used to say .

" We talk about it for 20 minutes and at the end of that we decide I was right " or something like that  

 

[Curtains]

40 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

did you not watch the Burnley game a couple of months ago?

I see what your getting at now 

Let's  watch the highlights if we have too as it's painful 

 

Not one of Shackells better days but neither was it Keoghs for that 1st Burnley goal  

Two penalties killed us and an own goal. 

We were the better team 1st half though and great goal by Butterfield 

[bcnram]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Don't think I've seen or made any comments that are OTT. 

I wish people would stop comparing everything to Leicester. 

I could drive down the A52 blindfolded and then say "look, I can drive down the A52 blindfolded." Doesn't mean it's the best way to do it or it needs to be done like that. 

There's a reason that it's extremely rare for a team like Leicester to win the PL. It's like when Barcelona get beat and everyone thinks they know the secret formula to beating Barcelona. 

If you think defenders are for defending and attackers are for attacking then you're wrong 

You attack from the back and defend from the front. Every team in the world does this. So its perfectly within reason to expect defenders to buy into the way you want to play. And we want to be a passing side. So that's why we're talking about Shackell's possession. 

He's not being hammered. I for one have already said he'd stay in my starting 11. 

But there's things that Buxton does better than Shackell. And it's ok to discuss them instead of measuring ability by Premier League appearances. 

Have you seen some of the garbage to play in the Champs League and have World Cup medals. Kelvin Wilson has played in the Champions League. 

 

 

Didn't Deon Burton play in the World Cup and then bounced around about 20 clubs.

 

[Carl Sagan]

17 hours ago, Alpha said:

Don't like it that Shackell gets credit for how Keogh plays tbh.

The worst of Keogh came when he had changes all around him. Christie, Shotton, Whitbread, Buxton, Raul, Forsyth, Thorne, Eustace and Mascarell. 

I'm sure Shackell's calm confidence has helped but Keogh and the coaches have probably done more for Keogh. 

On topic. It's a massive trade off. Shackell is abysmal in possession. I've never seen a player stop the ball dead so often. He invites pressure onto the team. We get squeezed in. Then when he does hit the pass the receiver has to wait 10 minutes for the ball to reach him. You can give Shackell 15 yards to step into and he ignores it. Olsson could have a huge spotlight follow him around and Shackell still wouldn't see him.

But he's brilliant at defending. Stays on his feet, awesome awareness. Unbeatable in the air. The way he guides dribbling attackers is spot on. By far the best defender since... Shackell. 

I'd stick with Shackell. But he's massively frustrating. Looks like he's taking a free kick all the time

I've agreed with everything Alpha has said in this thread (that I've read - I might have skipped a couple of pages) and have highlighted key parts of this opening salvo. I think the frustration is that Shackell is a better player than he's letting himself appear and because of that the Shackell vs Bucko question is for me on a knife edge.

For all Shackell's brilliant defending, he destroys the flow and pace of the team. It's as if he's been coached to play with fear when all he needs to do is to play it quicker, carry the ball forward and be prepared to look for Olsson when he's in masses of space and our play could be transformed. Shackell isn't alone in having a first thought that appears to be to want to go backwards rather than forwards, but he is the worst culprit in the team.

When the opposition knows Keogh is our only outlet out of defence we are so easy to play against. As I've said throughout the season, it's a case of bringing variety into our play to keep our opponents guessing and put us rather than them in the driving seat.

Regarding Bucko, the thing he must not do is make every corner or one-on-one a wrestling match. Same as for my belief with Shackell being better on the ball than he's letting on, Bucko is a better defender than he showed on Saturday. When he came on against the gumps there was no need to walk onto the field and start pushing Matt Mills around in our penalty area. He mustn't become the caricature of himself that the gumps like to paint. However, some of it will be a fitness thing, not having played for most of the season. If Bucko has a run in the team I expect he would flourish.

If Bucko plays a game or two while Shacks is recovering from the groin strain, it could actually help Shacks see how much better we'd be as a team if he starts being less cautious in possession and funneling everything through Keogh.

[JoeDerby]

Does anybody else think Bucko will be playing at Championship side Burton next year??? 

[BondJovi]

I think we have 3 excellent CBs for this league. Shackell can pass the ball just fine,his problem is the time he takes to do it. I have the most confidence in Shackell when it comes to defending, when it comes to passing the ball out, I have most faith in Buxton. Though I don't think there is a huge amount in their ability to defend.

[jono]

I certainly didn't start this thread to knock either player. I was interested in people's views as Bucko has some particularly loyal fans.

i reckon Carl has it right in that Shackle could raise his game by an order of magnitude with the right coaching. I've seen him win crucial headers and shepherd tricky attackers away from a danger area but curiously when he has time, the urgency and forthought in his game seem to dwindle. There is an argument that he doesn't get enough support from the middle of the park to help his decisions but that is only part of the story. Bucko for me is a great warrior to have on the pitch but I am not sure he has the subtly to move to another level which Shackle does.