Curtains Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, nottingram said: Thorne played about ten games in this season and a half? I agree the midfield have to play their part but if you think Shackell is even close to Buxton in terms of distribution then we're not on the same planet. He's not as bad as people think but Buxton is slightly better at passing 30 Yard passes . Buxton is not as good a defender IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not for me ,,, 3 centre halves just because shack ell has poor distribution and we can't decide which brings us most shakel or Buxton? To fit all three in we lose a forward/ creative or box to box midfielder,,, nope sorry chose one and work on his weaker areas in training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, sage said: Thank you for so eloquently proving my theory. You have no theory other than your man love for Buxton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, curtains said: Seriously you need to watch what options Shackell and Keogh have other than long balls or Keogh breaking the line. Buxton is being done no favors by people wanting him to play ahead of Shackell . It would be a major mistake. Derbys midfield needs to give defenders options. Like I've said. At this level you get seconds to steal half a yard. If Shackell take 3 or 4 seconds on the ball then as a midfielder you're now pressured. What can I do about that? Where can I go? I need the ball to shift again so someone else can drop for it, I leave my space for someone else and I take up the space left by whoever dropped deep. If the ball moves quick then I can use the half yard I may have gained. If I use my time well then the next guy gets a full yard. Then the next guy even more. Then we're creating an opponent to chase the ball always a yard behind. But if it goes to Shackell and he's taking 4 or 5 touches, stopping it dead then the opposition can dictate where he passes it. You'd need some real special midfielders to take the ball under the kind of pressure Shackell creates and do something other than pass backwards. Thorne is one. Hughes too. Butterfield less so. Hendrick and Bryson not at all. But it's high risk playing into such a pressed midfield. Have you seen the way they press Thorne because they know he's happy and capable to work under pressure? Like glue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Alpha said: Like I've said. At this level you get seconds to steal half a yard. If Shackell take 3 or 4 seconds on the ball then as a midfielder you're now pressured. What can I do about that? Where can I go? I need the ball to shift again so someone else can drop for it, I leave my space for someone else and I take up the space left by whoever dropped deep. If the ball moves quick then I can use the half yard I may have gained. If I use my time well then the next guy gets a full yard. Then the next guy even more. Then we're creating an opponent to chase the ball always a yard behind. But if it goes to Shackell and he's taking 4 or 5 touches, stopping it dead then the opposition can dictate where he passes it. You'd need some real special midfielders to take the ball under the kind of pressure Shackell creates and do something other than pass backwards. Thorne is one. Hughes too. Butterfield less so. Hendrick and Bryson not at all. But it's high risk playing into such a pressed midfield. Have you seen the way they press Thorne because they know he's happy and capable to work under pressure? Like glue I just don't see it the same way as you I'm sorry. I often see Shackell gesticulating to the midfield and forwards to move when he has the ball to give him options and it's often the same for Keogh. Hughes will be a massive bonus on his return . i wouldn't like to say you are totally wrong about Shackells distribution but I think people are being unfair on him with this constant get it forward stuff. Hes has the ball for a second or two and the crowd are on his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Just now, curtains said: I just don't see it the same way as you I'm sorry. I often see Shackell gesticulating to the midfield and forwards to move when he has the ball to give him options and it's often the same for Keogh. Hughes will be a massive bonus on his return . i wouldn't like to say you are totally wrong about Shackells distribution but I think people are being unfair on him with this constant get it forward stuff. What is the alternative. What does he want to happen. Who can give him options? If Thorne is pressed then what can he do? Come to the ball. So Thorne drops and Joe Bloggs drops with him. There's space where Thorne was. Hendrick steps into it with his marker half a yard behind. Now what happens? Shackell doesn't have the confidence/ability/speed to hit Hendrick. Keogh though. If Thorne drops and Joe Bloggs goes with Thorne, Keogh now has the ability to go on and put Joe Bloggs out the game. He can hit Hendrick. He can hit Cyrus. He can even skip that stage and find the player (Martin for example) that stepped into the space left by Hendrick. That's why it's best not to press Derby too much when Keogh has the ball. He can use whatever you give him. (I'm not saying he's an all star passer and dribbler but he'd adequate) I'm not demanding that he gets it forward. I'm just arguing the toss between Shack's weakness and Buxton's strengths. Buxton like Keogh, isn't an all star passer and dribbler. But he thinks faster, hits earlier and can pick out someone hugging the touchline. That's where Buxton can improve the team. Not defensively though unfortunately. It's up to Wassall and Co to weigh up the pros and cons. Shackell's football ability is probably why he's not spent more time in the PL. He's never looked a liability defensively. Not even in the PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 1 hour ago, eddie said: You're missing the point, @curtains. I didn't like the major wobbly he threw in Wassall's direction - it could have ended up causing a lot of trouble, but it seems that everyone has kissed and made up. He is a quality defender, I won't dispute that at all. I agree with Shackell having a go at Wassall because he made the wrong substitutions and changed the system against Rotherham when we were 3 up with 7 minutes to go. . Shacks apologised and him and Wassall have moved on. Shacks may not make Cardiff who knows with his groin problem and if he doesn't I wish BUCKO well in that game. I also hope Wassall does well with Harry as adviser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCArmy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Shacks is the better no nonsense defender but Bucks is a better team player... that's why I'd go with Bucks But wouldn't it be nice to have bucks passing with Shacks defending?!?!.. hopefully candy crush goes out and spends some of his pennies on one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, Alpha said: What is the alternative. What does he want to happen. Who can give him options? If Thorne is pressed then what can he do? Come to the ball. So Thorne drops and Joe Bloggs drops with him. There's space where Thorne was. Hendrick steps into it with his marker half a yard behind. Now what happens? Shackell doesn't have the confidence/ability/speed to hit Hendrick. Keogh though. If Thorne drops and Joe Bloggs goes with Thorne, Keogh now has the ability to go on and put Joe Bloggs out the game. He can hit Hendrick. He can hit Cyrus. He can even skip that stage and find the player (Martin for example) that stepped into the space left by Hendrick. That's why it's best not to press Derby too much when Keogh has the ball. He can use whatever you give him. (I'm not saying he's an all star passer and dribbler but he'd adequate) I'm not demanding that he gets it forward. I'm just arguing the toss between Shack's weakness and Buxton's strengths. Buxton like Keogh, isn't an all star passer and dribbler. But he thinks faster, hits earlier and can pick out someone hugging the touchline. That's where Buxton can improve the team. Not defensively though unfortunately. It's up to Wassall and Co to weigh up the pros and cons. Shackell's football ability is probably why he's not spent more time in the PL. He's never looked a liability defensively. Not even in the PL I see your point I really do. Im not against Buxton he's good to have around. As for our deficiencies regarding distribution and interplay and playing quicker football I don't just blame Shackell. Take Rotherham away 3 up and Keogh plays an awful cross field ball and It's 3-1 . Keogh isn't blameless with this slow play from the back either If Buxton and Keogh play at Cardiff I will watch with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 When Keogh and bucks start the game together I'm gonna have no bloody finger nails left by kick off. Shacks every time for me. Let the midfielders, fullbacks and forwards deal with finding there own space. Isn't that there job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Just now, curtains said: I see your point I really do. Im not against Buxton he's good to have around. As for our deficiencies regarding distribution and interplay and playing quicker football I don't just blame Shackell. Take Rotherham away 3 up and Keogh plays an awful cross field ball and It's 3-1 . Keogh isn't blameless with this slow play from the back either If Buxton and Keogh play at Cardif I will watch with interest. No it's not just Shackell. But when you play out from the back then it's always going to be Shackell most often. Bradley Johnson is similar. Cyrus is every bit as bad on one of his bad days Jeff Hendrick seems to melt under the pressure when forced to build from deeper. He can be a bit slow and clumsy Russell can be the same as Jeff. Martin can then go and kill it by trying something ambitious during the period of the game where the opposition is going through a high and are full of energy to press, retreat, press, retreat. What we need is some good possession to take the sting out. Not him playing about. Save that for when the opposition has cooled off. Martin doesn't seem to recognise the flow of a game too well. I'm not slating these players. Johnson can go about and keep us ticking over while being a bloody nuisance to the opposition. He's good in the air. Hendrick comes to life in the final third and seems much sharper. It's where he enjoys himself Russell can play like he played on Saturday. Need more of that. Head up and let's build the attack with care. Martin is class when we get in control, get people past him so he can turn around. Get players near him on the edge of the box and he's great. (The goal on Saturday was typical. Hendrick beyond, Martin facing the right way in the right places. But God help us when these players have an off day all at once. It becomes sloppy and stupid. And that's going to happen if they all play together every week. It's finding the right balance between their ball carrying/defensive ability and the fast thinking, minimal touch stuff of the likes of Thorne Bryson Hughes Butterfield Martin (when the game is controlled.) It's tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not sure why Mel had to feel the need for reaching out to Harry, I'm sure he could have grabbed an expert or two off here :-D Makes you wonder how the hell Leicester are at the top of the PL with defenders like Wes Morgan, if playing 30 yard balls are a must to progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 It's Shackell's turn I see. Shackell is a better defender than Bucko and that's what his primary job is, give the ball to Thorne and let him pull the strings. And he makes Keogh look a better defender. Shackell has a promotion to the Premier League on his CV so he can't be too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Not sure why Mel had to feel the need for reaching out to Harry, I'm sure he could have grabbed an expert or two off here :-D Makes you wonder how the hell Leicester are at the top of the PL with defenders like Wes Morgan, if playing 30 yard balls are a must to progress... Who mentioned playing 30 yard balls being a must? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Seth's left foot said: It's Shackell's turn I see. Shackell is a better defender than Bucko and that's what his primary job is, give the ball to Thorne and let him pull the strings. And he makes Keogh look a better defender. Shackell has a promotion to the Premier League on his CV so he can't be too shabby. Shackell's turn for what? It's a thread discussing the strengths and weakness of Buxton and Shackell if you've read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Not sure why Mel had to feel the need for reaching out to Harry, I'm sure he could have grabbed an expert or two off here :-D Makes you wonder how the hell Leicester are at the top of the PL with defenders like Wes Morgan, if playing 30 yard balls are a must to progress... Because they aren't a possession based side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 15 minutes ago, cannable said: Because they aren't a possession based side... Are you saying they recognise their players strengths and play to them....interesting, wonder if it will catch on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: Are you saying they recognise their players strengths and play to them....interesting, wonder if it will catch on? Probably not. As poor old Martin's spent God knows how long having to compete in the channels due to our inability to efficiently pass it out of defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 1 hour ago, sage said: It is interesting that Bucko supporters explain in clear football terms their relative merits and conclude for the good of the team, that Bucko should start. Shackell fans just seem to be going Shackell's better nerrrrrrrrr I think that Bucko looks like a real man and Shacks looks like a male model. If it were the other way round this thread would never have started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, i-Ram said: I think that Bucko looks like a real man and Shacks looks like a male model. If it were the other way round this thread would never have started. Which one do you prefer? A real man or a model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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