Bucko V Shacks

[ITSD]

3 hours ago, JoeDerby said:

Does anybody else think Bucko will be playing at Championship side Burton next year??? 

I think he'll be playing at Premiership side Derby 

[Alph]

6 hours ago, curtains said:

Cheap shot .

Shackell get it forward .

Dont care if there is no one there just get it forward .

 

 

Don't be stupid. 

You make yourself look really daft sometimes when you start making up the other side of an argument. There's plenty of sound reasoning against you. The only person to whinge about the ball going forwards is you in your needless sarcastic manner.

There's no need. Take part in the thread properly or stay out.

What you're doing is trolling. 

[Alph]

Also talking about Rashford is irrelevant. Completely nothing to do with anything we're on about.

If it was a bizarre way to criticise Buxton's pace... when was the last time you saw Buxton is a straight up race with a center forward. When was the last time you saw other slow good CB's in a race with a striker? 

I dunno how good this Rashford fella is. I've seen the hype and watched Shearer talk about his amazing movement (as he jogged into the box like every other striker in the world). But I know he's not in this league. Also not in this league are Sergio Aguero, Messi, Lewandowski, Zlatan and Ronaldo. And it's not worth worrying about how our defence would cope with them either. 

Will Hughes is good. But what if he was up against Rakitic, Iniesta and Busquets in 2 seasons time? Pointless debate

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

Don't be stupid. 

You make yourself look really daft sometimes when you start making up the other side of an argument. There's plenty of sound reasoning against you. The only person to whinge about the ball going forwards is you in your needless sarcastic manner.

There's no need. Take part in the thread properly or stay out.

What you're doing is trolling. 

What can I say I'm not really sure what you mean  it's only my opinion. 

[YorkshireRam]

22 hours ago, North_Stand_Ram said:

Shackell. 100%. Buxton or Keogh on the other hand...

Keogh has been outperforming Shackell for the majority of the season.

Against Forest, Keogh won everything in the air, was at times, the only one prepared to attempt to break the stalemate by breaking forward with the ball and was generally solid at the back.

Shackell was solid for the most part if unspectacular, however he dwelled on the ball for far too long and often created the stalemate that Keogh had to break...

So while I don't feel Buxton is threatening Shackell's place in the team, it's ridiculous to suggest he's even coming close to making Wassall question Keogh's selection.

[North_Stand_Ram]

Just now, YorkshireRam said:

Keogh has been outperforming Shackell for the majority of the season.

Against Forest, Keogh won everything in the air, was at times, the only one prepared to attempt to break the stalemate by breaking forward with the ball and was generally solid at the back.

Shackell was solid for the most part if unspectacular, however he dwelled on the ball for far too long and often created the stalemate that Keogh had to break...

So while I don't feel Buxton is threatening Shackell's place in the team, it's ridiculous to suggest he's even coming close to making Wassall question Keogh's selection.

Going to have to disagree with you there buddy. But each to their own 

[YorkshireRam]

2 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said:

Going to have to disagree with you there buddy. But each to their own 

That's fair enough. Out of interest, what do you find Keogh lacks that Buxton would provide?

[North_Stand_Ram]

Just now, YorkshireRam said:

That's fair enough. Out of interest, what do you find Keogh lacks that Buxton would provide?

For the record, I do think Keogh has had a good season. I just prefer Buxton and don't think he's had a go at RCB position in a good few years, which is slightly unfair given that he is right footed. Wass has made Keogh captain, so he clearly doesn't share my opinion on the situation. 

I just feel that Buxton's attributes are more suited to playing alongside Shackell. We do miss Buxton's distribution, and although Shackell probably has the worst at distribution out of the 3, I feel we'd miss Shackell's defensive capabilities more when compared with Keogh.

I'm not saying I'd drop Keogh tomorrow because he was excellent against Forest and has played well this season, but I would like to see Buxton have a go next to Shacks this season

[YorkshireRam]

8 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said:

For the record, I do think Keogh has had a good season. I just prefer Buxton and don't think he's had a go at RCB position in a good few years, which is slightly unfair given that he is right footed. Wass has made Keogh captain, so he clearly doesn't share my opinion on the situation. 

I just feel that Buxton's attributes are more suited to playing alongside Shackell. We do miss Buxton's distribution, and although Shackell probably has the worst at distribution out of the 3, I feel we'd miss Shackell's defensive capabilities more when compared with Keogh.

I'm not saying I'd drop Keogh tomorrow because he was excellent against Forest and has played well this season, but I would like to see Buxton have a go next to Shacks this season

There's no doubt Shackell is the best defender we have.

He wins everything aerially, his positional sense is excellent and his tackling is generally under-rated. He's a defender and for these reasons, he has to start.

However, Buxton and Keogh are technically better footballers. Their passing ability and ball control and far superior to Shackell's. They were part of the reason we were so prolific in 13/14, fast, dynamic play starting from the back; but at the expense of causing defensive fragility. This style of play was always going to be unsustainable and our derailing at the end of last season demonstrated this point. We reached a stage where we couldn't score more goals than we were conceding, which led to scorelines like the games against Rotherham and Millwall.

Shackell has changed that, brought stability at the expense of dynamism at the back, so who to play alongside him is based on the balance of defensive ability and ball distribution/technical ability. Buxton is a better passer but Keogh has better ball control, the tipping point I find is that Keogh is a better defender in my eyes, his blocks have often been key and his last gasp tackles have denied quite a few goals. Buxton is also sometimes outclassed by better forwards, mainly due to his lack of pace. I can't imagine him being able to stay anywhere near Andre Gray for example, hence Keogh>Buxton for me, that being said, there possibly isn't as much in it as I maybe first thought.

[derbydaz22]

40 minutes ago, North_Stand_Ram said:

For the record, I do think Keogh has had a good season. I just prefer Buxton and don't think he's had a go at RCB position in a good few years, which is slightly unfair given that he is right footed. Wass has made Keogh captain, so he clearly doesn't share my opinion on the situation. 

I just feel that Buxton's attributes are more suited to playing alongside Shackell. We do miss Buxton's distribution, and although Shackell probably has the worst at distribution out of the 3, I feel we'd miss Shackell's defensive capabilities more when compared with Keogh.

I'm not saying I'd drop Keogh tomorrow because he was excellent against Forest and has played well this season, but I would like to see Buxton have a go next to Shacks this season

Them 2 together wouldn't work we would have to play deep because they are both to slow to play together. 

[barnsley ram]

why do we give this silly thread oxygen its like comparing a mongrel with a thoroughbread

[PodgeyRam]

We could have this debate all day long (and from the looks of it we have).

There's no denying that Shackell is a superb championship defender. Strong in the air and good at sheparding players where he wants them to go and then blocking the ball. No one can deny it, and it's part of the reason Burnley were so dominant when they went up. Everybody knows his passing is lacking, but then again, at Burnley he was never really asked to pass th ball along the floor accurately.

Compare this to Bucko. Also strong in the air, but quite a lot shorter. He seems to have trouble against pacy strikers, but so does Shackell (see Andre Gray). His passing ability is way ahead of Shackell - how often in the past would he ping the ball 50 yards to feet. He's quicker to step out. However as has been pointed out, he has a tendency to grab the opposition when llosing them at corners (Shackell also does this by the way, just not so blatently).

In many ways Shackell was the perfect Clement signing - a defender who very rarely makes mistakes and has no ambitiion going forwards whatsoever. But Mel doesn't want us to play that way. Mel wants attacking football that's easy on the eye and for this to happen the entire team has to be comfortable on the ball. Shackell isn't. Buxton is. Buxton has no qualms about moving forwards and is capable of playing the ball foward to our own players and not the opposition.

In a team looking to play attacking, possession based football Buxton is the better fit. Shackell works best when he's told not to move beyond the defensive third of the pitch. In the style of football we want to play, ideally the centre backs would be on the half way line - where Shackell is at his worst.

Opposition teams have cottoned on to the fact that Shackell is weak on the ball. They will press Keogh. They'll press Thorne. But they won't press Shackell because they know that when he does pass it foward it will more than likely give them possession. This makes it too comfortable for them.

 

Buxton for me please.

[Alph]

2 hours ago, curtains said:

What can I say I'm not really sure what you mean  it's only my opinion. 

It's your opinion that other people in this thread are demanding the ball always goes forwards? 

Nobody has said that. Nobody

[Rev]

No chance we'd have conceded 5 by half time with Shackell!

[Ghost of Clough]

No chance we'd have conceded 3 in the last 10 minutes against Rotherham with Shackell 

[Curtains]

14 minutes ago, Alpha said:

It's your opinion that other people in this thread are demanding the ball always goes forwards? 

Nobody has said that. Nobody

I haven't said that I'm on about elements in the IPRO  crowd. 

Every time he gets the ball it's shouts of forward  before he's controlled it.

it really unsettles the lad. 

[Curtains]

12 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

No chance we'd have conceded 5 by half time with Shackell!

6 

but they have 15 players on after 4-0 

HT it's 8-6 to the rams. 

Hughes on  2nd half with Ince 

Blackman has  a hat trick 

[jono]

3 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

We could have this debate all day long (and from the looks of it we have).

There's no denying that Shackell is a superb championship defender. Strong in the air and good at sheparding players where he wants them to go and then blocking the ball. No one can deny it, and it's part of the reason Burnley were so dominant when they went up. Everybody knows his passing is lacking, but then again, at Burnley he was never really asked to pass th ball along the floor accurately.

Compare this to Bucko. Also strong in the air, but quite a lot shorter. He seems to have trouble against pacy strikers, but so does Shackell (see Andre Gray). His passing ability is way ahead of Shackell - how often in the past would he ping the ball 50 yards to feet. He's quicker to step out. However as has been pointed out, he has a tendency to grab the opposition when llosing them at corners (Shackell also does this by the way, just not so blatently).

In many ways Shackell was the perfect Clement signing - a defender who very rarely makes mistakes and has no ambitiion going forwards whatsoever. But Mel doesn't want us to play that way. Mel wants attacking football that's easy on the eye and for this to happen the entire team has to be comfortable on the ball. Shackell isn't. Buxton is. Buxton has no qualms about moving forwards and is capable of playing the ball foward to our own players and not the opposition.

In a team looking to play attacking, possession based football Buxton is the better fit. Shackell works best when he's told not to move beyond the defensive third of the pitch. In the style of football we want to play, ideally the centre backs would be on the half way line - where Shackell is at his worst.

Opposition teams have cottoned on to the fact that Shackell is weak on the ball. They will press Keogh. They'll press Thorne. But they won't press Shackell because they know that when he does pass it foward it will more than likely give them possession. This makes it too comfortable for them.

 

Buxton for me please.

This is a great alternative opinion. I don't agree but all the same it contains valid arguments. I like Bucko enormously but in 7 out of 10 games I would prefer Shacks on the pitch. .. I am now stopping before I sound any more like an ad for pet food